eoin k
Member Since: 20 Aug 2011
Location: wicklow
Posts: 13
  
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| Double Flush or new torque convertor |
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Hi guys. I just bought a D3 last week on a private sale so no comeback. The jeep is a 05 2.7d v6 hse hse with a full service history and the gear box oil and pan changed in march of this year. the D3 was a city jeep with no heavy work, muddy gaps or trailor work ever wheel brace wasnt even used from new. after a day or so i noticed the shudder around 1800 to 2200 revs in the trans having read some stuff on her and other sites all signs point to the torque convertor.
I have 2 LR dealers close by, one drove it and said definitly torque convertor he done one on a RR sport 2 weeks ago same symptoms. The other seems to think it may not be it at all saying possiblt a fuel filter if any loss in engine power it causes the trans to do this. he wants to check the diagnostics first. Both are in business a long time here.
I have saw somewhere that the trans has its own Diagnostic set from mechatronic unit. Im wondering should i try the double flush ?????? with the price of the oil how much would i use? i can buy a new Zf TC for 500 euro should i just strip it down and do the torque convertor now.
When the trans in being removed do you unbolt the TC from the flex plate from an inspecion window ? or whats the procedure? i have done mitsubishi L 200 engine and gearbox recently. I havnt seriously looked at the trans yet, looks heavy but not over complex to remove ! Am i kidding myself? i have never done anything at an auto trans except on heavy plant. Does anyone know of a video of the procedure or details online.
I can get a second hand TC has anyone tried ? unless you knew the car it came out of i guess would be a roll of the dice.
Well all advice welcome. Thanks in advance
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 21st Aug 2011 8:54 am |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
  
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Welcome 
But ..... Quote:The jeep is a 05 2.7d v6 hse
its not a JEEP its a LAND ROVER
re your problem, i would flush the gearbox first, replace the fuel filter - all easy jobs if you can use a spanner, then see what its like. I had a similar problem - occured when towing or under heavy load up hills first and the double flush sorted it. did it again at 110K miles and still OK at 135K
you could get a MEGAFLUSH done to flush the gearbox completly - about £200 inc oil i think
not major issues IMO if thats all that you think is wrong with it Duncan
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If I'd known I was going to be so thirsty this morning I'd have drunk more beer last night.
FFRR Autobiography 4.4 SDV8 MY17
D4 HSE MY13 SOLD
FFRR 3.6 Vogue TDV8 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D4 SE TECH MY15 SOLD
D4 XS MY12 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D3 HSE MY06 - Re-Cycled Worldwide
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| 21st Aug 2011 8:56 am |
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eoin k
Member Since: 20 Aug 2011
Location: wicklow
Posts: 13
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I will have to get my land rover speak up to speed !!
Good to hear about the flush. THeres 115k miles on mine. I pulled a trailor for a couple of hours yesterday heavy enough ifor williams but not loaded. The strange thing is it seemed to improve it slightly, Could it be cobwebs from and unworked life ?
What does a mega flush consist of? Weenkend at a spa for the LAND ROVER ??
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| 21st Aug 2011 9:14 am |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
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at that sort of mileage I would also check the following :
ARB Bushes front and rear
Suspension wish bone bushes
ARB drop arms
Wheel bearings
All of the above wore out on mine between 85K and 130K miles - got them sorted and it now drives like new Duncan
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If I'd known I was going to be so thirsty this morning I'd have drunk more beer last night.
FFRR Autobiography 4.4 SDV8 MY17
D4 HSE MY13 SOLD
FFRR 3.6 Vogue TDV8 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D4 SE TECH MY15 SOLD
D4 XS MY12 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D3 HSE MY06 - Re-Cycled Worldwide
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| 21st Aug 2011 9:23 am |
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eoin k
Member Since: 20 Aug 2011
Location: wicklow
Posts: 13
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I know it got new wishbones in march , I will have to check the others. But wheel bearings seem perfect. This D3 had everything done on it nothing spared. Should i get the diangnostis plugged in anyways?
Im curious of the MEGA flush what is it . When the trans oil is dropped out how much comes out ? and does an overnight drain improve the volume drained sure it must. Im told the zf transmission is pretty much bulletproof so sure it cant be that anyways..
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| 21st Aug 2011 9:44 am |
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bajaracer
Member Since: 16 Oct 2009
Location: lovendegem
Posts: 10
 
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Had exactly the same thing when coming back from Italy with 3.5 ton boat. Problem started with rev not stable when accellerating soon followed by massive juddering throughout car. First diagnostics : torque convertor.
According to ZF Germany it is always better to change the mecatronic together with torque convertor. Not very expensive parts ( official prices ZF : ca 400 € for TC and about 450 € for mecatronic). So changed these two parts + mega flush : rev problem gone, juddering gone, car drives well..... but from 3 to 4 th gear the car changes gear in a rather aggressive way.... so car has to go back to dealer, remove transmission, open the transmission and redo the whole box. Will be expensive thing.
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| 21st Aug 2011 9:53 am |
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eoin k
Member Since: 20 Aug 2011
Location: wicklow
Posts: 13
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Ok Guys
Latest update on the D3 Trans. Having looked about I see some had people had used Mobil/Castrol LT1141 AkA ZF lifeguard 5, So I did too. With a plan of changing the oil regular Im sure it will work fine. Ibought 20 litre drum for 150 euros here in Irl.
I used Filos method of pumping the oil out by starting the D3 into a measured oil can with a cloth on top to avoid the splashing. Then drained off the remainder from the bottom in the usual manner. I mentioned this system to the independent LR man when I was ordering the new Trans pan assem and he frowned and said would you do it with the engine!! so maybe he has a point as running the pump dry was my fear in the beginning. I had done it twice at this time and seemed ok.
First time I got coming up to 5 litres, Second time about the same.
On the Third i drained it off from the bottom as i was removing the sump anyways and got about 5.5 litres, opened the pipes at the cooler and gave them a light blow of the airline down to aid the draining.Before I done this I drove the D3 up on 4 equal 100mm square pieces of timber to get it up a bit more as I had no lift and raised it to offroad level to give me some room. I used the instructions posted here Fluid pan gasket&filter removal.. Followed it mostly but had to jack the engine way more than 35mm.I removed the trans mount bolt on the rear beside the T box and plac3ed a jack there too.
Difficult to get the engine to raise on 1 side with a jack so got my reliable piece of timber again 100mm square and about 300mm long, placed it right under the unbolted engine mount and jacked it that way worked a treat. I was fearful of damaging some pipe work on the engine but all was fine. The only problem I had was the fuel filter mount I found unbolting that from the chassis and pushing it up 75 mm allowed the pan to slide out a lot more easily to the drivers side RH. So well worth doing. I used a battery drill and a small tengtool ratchet to remove the 21 torx screws and replace them some at the front had little room so placed a spanner on the small torx bit and just released them hand tight only when the tension is off them! I had an air ratchet on standby but wasnt needed.
Anyways The old sump was clean no harsh metal bits just looked like burned black oil/grease on the magnets.Interestingly it had on the service manual it was changed in march of this year and the sump had production date of may 2010 so looked like it was done and not lies..Wondering why the judder was in it in such a short time ??Reason to worry I wonder??? Or perhaps it got a little abuse of heavy towing and bad driving and over heated the trans?? Any suggestions
So Following Filos filling method from the top cooler I put in 5.5 new oil for 3 time.Modified the can slightly and I put the air pressure valve on top so when its filling the oil isnt being spitted back into the airline! Had this problem first time. Drilled the top rear of the can. Fitted a tubeless valve in and pulled it through from the cap with a piece of wire.Problem solved.
Hope all is ok now. drives fine now no judder and following my map sensor incident...
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic68923.html
All ready for nct car test now friday ..Apart from brake pad warning light coming on this morning!! good timing.Will a new sensor plugged in and not fitted in the pad just clear in the system checks?? Had enough mechanical work for this week!!
Sorry for not adding pics. didnt start until 5 PM yestrday eve and daylight was burning .All finished about 9 so wasnt too bad at all..
HOPE MAY BE OF SOME USE TO SOMEONE
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| 1st Sep 2011 9:08 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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eoin, a couple of pointers....
If the ATF fluid is that bad in such a short time, I suspect that you have a bigger problem (well not really big, but you need to address it asap).
I suspect that your ATF cooler has a slight crack where it is joined with the Water cooler (it's a combined Water and ATF radiator/cooler unit in one)
The fluid will become contaminated with Glycol (only needs a very tiny leak) from teh rad & that will cause the ATF to sludge up & eventually to wear/overcontaminate the torque converter.
Radiator unit is about £250ish ISTR plus of course you should re-flush the ATF at the same time and should need some more coolant when you change them over.
You can get the ATF checked for glycol.
Re the brake warning light, a new sensor will fix automatically. but you should check your pads! Also, if they see a sensor plugged in, but danglig freely, surely they will query it.....? Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 1st Sep 2011 9:39 am |
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eoin k
Member Since: 20 Aug 2011
Location: wicklow
Posts: 13
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Not sure where in irl I can get the oil sampled must be available somewhere, as there is no mega flush machines here. So hard to know.. But the oil from the first drain didnt seem to be corrupted by water or glycol surely it would emulsify have a slight white fraught? even with a tiny amount of water. I will keep a close eye on the water level in the header bottle and cross my fingers not a new rad unit too. As for the brake sensor i will tuck it away nicely and just use the old way to monitor pads there down a good bit but have some meat left on them but i will replace soon. They fail here even with an amber warning light on. Must be fault free!
I will keep a good eye on the water level. I washed out the rad carfully from the front minding not to bend the fins with a hot wash a few weeks ago and there was a lot of road dirt. This must have reduced the cooling properties greatly.
Any ways thanks for the info, all good for food for thought.. 
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| 1st Sep 2011 11:18 am |
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eoin k
Member Since: 20 Aug 2011
Location: wicklow
Posts: 13
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After all my work flushing etc im sad to say the dreaded judder returned..  . Cant understand why it went with the introduction of the first 5 litres, then returned after 10 more litres and a new pan assembly.
One thing I found yesterday before I noticed it was back while checking for leaks before replacing heat shields and cover I noticed water running from the top of the trans. So it was a hot day and im guessing its the drain off from the aircon. This would have been the first day the aircon was on since I changed the first 5 litres. Does anybody know if there is an air breather on top of the trans that could possibly allow some of this water to enter the trans and corrupt the oil.
Bodsy said to me yesterday about a possible leak from the cooling system to trans. This got me thinking that it ran fine until the aircon was on yesterday morning. Im guessing the drain off should run lower in it own plastic pipe but it may be damaged and pooling on top of the trans and leaking in somewhere.. or am I clutching at straws???
If not this its new torque convertor at this stage I think..
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| 2nd Sep 2011 8:19 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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There is a front diff breather pipe that could come off, but not cause the contamination.
If getting a new torque converter, make sure you get a new radiator OR a seperate Oil Cooler for the Auto Box. Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 2nd Sep 2011 9:02 am |
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wvlenthe
Member Since: 07 Jan 2009
Location: Arnhem
Posts: 1967
 
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eoin k wrote:Not sure where in irl I can get the oil sampled must be available somewhere
Try a transmission specialist, they can test for glycol.
HTH, Wiljo D3 V8 HSE Auto in Zermatt silver - driveway version gone but not forgotten, only the living room cupboard version remains
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| 2nd Sep 2011 9:04 am |
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davemh_80
Member Since: 17 Jul 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 16
 
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hi eoin k, how did you end up with the TC swap plan? I have the same shudder, have searched it to death, but in Aus can only find Auto dealers who want to swap the entire transmission. But I prefer the idea of trying just the Torque Converter first. So just wondering what you ended up doing. Also where you were planning to get the TC for 500?
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| 4th Aug 2012 9:03 am |
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Frans@yamorna
Member Since: 20 Jan 2010
Location: Tzaneen
Posts: 109
 
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Hi Eoin,
If you used Lifeguard 5,it is the wrong oil  the gearbox take Lifeguard 6 or equivalent The ZF is very specific for the correct oil!!That might explain why the shudder went away but returned soon??
Goodluck,
Frans Big Country RR,NL Split Charge,FR Sump Guard,TP Monitor,BAS map
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| 4th Aug 2012 1:18 pm |
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