Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73066
1st sentence paragraph is rubbish!
14th Dec 2010 10:20 pm
redjelly5000
Member Since: 18 Jul 2008
Location: Rugby
Posts: 473
Don't see why? Everywhere I look to clarify, they all say similar things...
Quote:
M+S (Mud and Snow) tyres are those with a tread pattern and sometimes compound specifically designed to perform well in poor road conditions. An M&S tyre will usually have a high negative void ratio in order to achieve this.
Some M+S tyres rely solely on the aggressive tread pattern to achieve this extra performance whilst others will have the addition of a specially designed rubber compound. In general terms this different compound is usually reserved for out and out winter tyres.
etyres.co.ukD3 TDV6 HSE 2008 Buckingham Blue (current)
D3 TDV6 HSE 2009 Zermatt Silver (previous)
D3 TDV6 HSE 2005 Maya Gold (previous)
D2 TD5 ES 1999 (previous)
Defender TD5 swb hard top 2005 (previous)
Defender 300tdi swb hard top 1994 (previous)
14th Dec 2010 10:26 pm
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
Wot DSL says - the first paragraph in the first thing that you quoted from Wikipedia is complete rubbish
The second quote (etyres.co.uk) in the above message looks spot on
M & S simply refers to the tyre tread geometry as a way to increase traction in certain conditions (such as mud/snow), but is nowt to do with extended low temperature performance or grip on very slippy, icy conditions by using special high-silica compounds and cleverly designed sipes and stuff 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
14th Dec 2010 10:41 pm
redjelly5000
Member Since: 18 Jul 2008
Location: Rugby
Posts: 473
Y'all can't just say it's complete rubbish without qualifying it! Otherwise it's only your opinion!
I did just find this though (I must be bored) which I think clarifies the matter....
Quote:
If a tire has MS, M+S, M/S or M&S on it, then it meets the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) guidelines for a mud and snow tire. For a tire to receive the Mud and Snow designation, it must meet these geometric requirements (taken from the bulletin "RMA Snow Tire Definitions for Passenger and Light Truck (LT) Tires"):
1. New tire treads shall have multiple pockets or slots in at least one tread edge that meet the following dimensional requirements based on mold dimensions:
a. Extend toward the tread center at least 1/2 inch from the footprint edge, measured perpendicularly to the tread centerline.
b. A minimum cross-sectional width of 1/16 inch.
c. Edges of pockets or slots at angles between 35 and 90 degrees from the direction of travel.
2. The new tire tread contact surface void area will be a minimum of 25 percent based on mold dimensions.
The rough translation of this specification is that the tire must have a row of fairly big grooves that start at the edge of the tread and extend toward the center of the tire. Also, at least 25 percent of the surface area must be grooves.
The idea is to give the tread pattern enough void space so that it can bite through the snow and get traction. However, as you can see from the specification, there is no testing involved.
To address this shortcoming, the Rubber Manufacturers Association and the tire industry have agreed on a standard that does involve testing. The designation is called Severe Snow Use and has a specific icon which goes next to the M/S designation.
In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in "RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions":
Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads.
These tires, in addition to meeting the geometrical requirements for an M/S designation, are tested on snow using a standardized test procedure.They have to do better than the standard reference tire in order to meet the requirements for Severe Snow Use.
It is all a bit American, but since General Tire is an American firm I think this applies...D3 TDV6 HSE 2008 Buckingham Blue (current)
D3 TDV6 HSE 2009 Zermatt Silver (previous)
D3 TDV6 HSE 2005 Maya Gold (previous)
D2 TD5 ES 1999 (previous)
Defender TD5 swb hard top 2005 (previous)
Defender 300tdi swb hard top 1994 (previous)
14th Dec 2010 11:48 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806
There are plenty of tyres marked M&S, but which are not "Winter Tyres" as clarified by PaulP:
[quote="PaulP" M & S simply refers to the tyre tread geometry as a way to increase traction in certain conditions (such as mud/snow), but is nowt to do with extended low temperature performance or grip on very slippy, icy conditions by using special high-silica compounds and cleverly designed sipes and stuff [/quote]
A good example is the Goodyear MTR, which (iirc) is M&S rated. It will quickly clear mud & snow from the treads, but is not a winter tyre and Goodyear rate them 2 out of 5 stars for winter use.
Hope this clarifies why DSL and PaulP are correct in dismissing the Wiki paragraph.
15th Dec 2010 12:32 am
Shiny Silver
Member Since: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Cambs
Posts: 170
My old Pirelli Scorpion Zero 19" had M+S on the side.
General AT 19" performing so much better in wet, slush, ice and snow. Dry grip no real difference than Scorpions for normal driving, but then I don't thrash the D3 - other toys for that!
15th Dec 2010 1:22 pm
AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
I think by now most will know how good these New General AT tyres are, so just to let you know I have another load in tomorrow, had 28 in this morning and all gone by 3.30pm
Please call me for orders. 01737 241370.
Andy.
15th Dec 2010 5:04 pm
Powderpuff
Member Since: 05 Nov 2009
Location: Rugby / Beauly
Posts: 140
Andy....I presume no news on a date for the 18's yet?
15th Dec 2010 6:46 pm
AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
I think the above says it all, So many people waiting, looks like Jan 2011 sometime I hope.
We had some 18" AT2's in this week so the new AT is not ready just yet.
Andy.
15th Dec 2010 6:53 pm
Ant
Member Since: 06 Mar 2008
Location: England
Posts: 14
New Grabber ATs
Had mine fitted today (very) first impressions are good. A slightly firmer ride (better cornering) with no noticeable increase in noise, but I've only been up to 50MPH on tarmac. Slightly surprised (but happy ) to find they are not unidirectional - at least we could see nothing to indicate a particular fitting position.
Logs to trail out of a wet field this weekend so we shall see how they go.
Ant
15th Dec 2010 9:04 pm
Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2808
Ahhhh, I really missed this thread a few days ago when nobody posted on it for a couple of days
Nice to have it back.
Nasher.Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
Cheapest i can find round here is £150 plus the dreaded, how's that to compare ????
Wondering weather to make the jump and buy some ?East bound and down, loaded up and truckin......
16th Dec 2010 1:54 pm
AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
Go and buy them, you will not reget it.
Best available at present.
Andy.
16th Dec 2010 2:02 pm
AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
Stock still good on the new AT.
17th Dec 2010 10:45 pm
Jamieklb
Member Since: 15 Aug 2010
Location: KLB
Posts: 301
Got mine fitted today,yay Anyone want 4 part worn recycled condoms? Black and ribbed?2015 Discovery 4 HSE Corris with Blackpack
1965 100" Coil Spring Hybrid Offender.
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