Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
me neither - though to be fair this may have been a Tory Law Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
18th Mar 2010 10:05 am
Archeci
Member Since: 17 Jul 2009
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 558
There is an obligation to name the driver if required to do so at the time an offence was committed. Failure to so do can lead to the registered keeper receiving up to 6 penalty points, plus fine plus court costs.
Good eh?
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18th Mar 2010 10:15 am
sticks348
Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: shropshire
Posts: 106
claim that it was cloned seems to be the way to get out of things at the moment
18th Mar 2010 10:24 am
astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8114
On the form I had there was definately a box to sign declaring "I wasn't the driver" and put their name in and return the form.
However it was me driving.....
I did feel a bit pi ed off as I was done at 44mph in a 40mph temporary roadworks at 5.30am in the morning (on A46 near J15 on M42) and got a snotty letter from the chief commssioner or whatever berating me for "endangering life" (there was none....) and basically threatening to "throw the book" at me. My thought was still "done, bang to rights" and just balances out all the other times I have driven really inappropriately.
I was offered, and took, a 'Speed awareness' course and plan was to go, keep it buttoned and get out of there ASAP. However it was worthwhile, a little bit sanctimonious but did what it intended to and make you "stop and think a bit".
It was quite amusing though as while everyone there felt "hard done by", me included, all the 'school run mums' on the course done speeding outside their own kids schools bleated they "hadn't harmed anybody"
Wasn't there a case in the paper recently where a couple stated that they didn't know who had been driving at the time as they had both used the car that day... They were BOTH given the points and fine As you slide down the banister of life
may no splinters point your way
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18th Mar 2010 11:18 am
UNG
Member Since: 20 Jun 2008
Location: Lancs
Posts: 764
SN wrote:
unfortunately plod is operating under a bizarre law where you are guilty until proven innocent - just how did the we sleep walk into this state of affairs?
I don't think this is a particularly new law and probably dates back to the days of the police radar vans (late 70's I think) when people accepted that this new fangled equipment had them bang to rights and now has developed to prove you are innocent or take the points and fine or the new alternative we know the evidence may be dodgy and would you like to try our new money making scheme
The problem is that they do not need to supply any evidence of the incident if they choose not to and from experience can get a sucessful prosecution in court on the hearsay and evidence of a police officer working with the safety camera partnership who was not even in the van at the time the alleged offence was commited"Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag'em down to your level. It's cheaper".
18th Mar 2010 12:02 pm
mzplcg
Member Since: 23 Jun 2009
Location: Gone
Posts: 1087
It all depends on how big your balls are. The bit about you getting the points and fine is only a game of brinkmanship as I discovered a while back. Stick to your guns and make it get to the point where it costs them money and they back down.
My case was dropped without explanation on the morning we were all due in court and my defence was based on me not wishing to perjure myself by guessing who might have been the driver at the time in question.
Basically, the photographs were not clear enough for me to make a positive identification and I was contending that the Police were attempting to make me commit perjury by "taking a guess", something I was about to make public information of in front of the magistrates.
Once you understand that it has zero to do with road safety and everything to do with raising revenue it's easier to fight. If it was about justice & road safety etc then EVERY case would be pursued regardless of cost. This is not the case, they only want the ones who will quietly accept and cough up, thus filling their coffers.
Having said that, I don't condone speeding but I thoroughly despise corrupt laws even more. Innocent until proven guilty is written in the magna carta 1215, the very document which forms the basis of our legal system today so they cannot ride roughshod over it despite all the threats. Bear in mind that not having the information they ask for does not constitute an offence on your part. Withholding evidence is an offence but you cannot be guilty of withholding something you never had.
18th Mar 2010 12:11 pm
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
AVE wrote:
They were BOTH given the points and fine
This sounds strange.....by giving both of them points and a fine, they are effectively and knowingly serving a sentence (or finding guily) on at least one completely innocent party...
Surely this in itself is illegal??2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
18th Mar 2010 12:14 pm
mzplcg
Member Since: 23 Jun 2009
Location: Gone
Posts: 1087
PaulP wrote:
[Surely this in itself is illegal??
Of course it is. How can it not be? Like I said, zero to do with justice. The trouble is, if they accepted it quietly then the authorities get away with it.
18th Mar 2010 12:32 pm
wylan
Member Since: 07 Mar 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 22
A friend of mine got zapped by a fixed camera last week doing 36.
He got a warning letter telling him off!
The only reason we can think of is that the camera is illegal and therefore not allowed to prosecute.
Any ideas?
18th Mar 2010 12:36 pm
sticks348
Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: shropshire
Posts: 106
astonbuilder wrote:
44mph in a 40mph temporary roadworks
surprised that you where done at 10%, normally there is an allowance based on the fact that your speedo is not calibrated etc
18th Mar 2010 1:29 pm
astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8114
Hence why I was peed off with it, but the 10% rule is a guideline, not a fact. The roadworks have now all been completed, the bypass is open and they are basically doing the 'gardening' round the edges but the 40mph limit is to stay for at least another couple of montsh 24/7.......
18th Mar 2010 1:54 pm
sticks348
Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: shropshire
Posts: 106
Contest it maybe, on the grounds that its close to the 10%, you speedo is not calibrated and that at 5:30 in the morning the it was hard to tell that the needle had moved slightly beyond 4mph.
I find it irritating these when these flashing signs post your speed at 30 when your speedo reads 26 - 27, I have to question it based on that
18th Mar 2010 2:12 pm
Frapp
Member Since: 19 Dec 2008
Location: Norff Zummerzet
Posts: 1655
Update Guys.
Nowhere on page 1 does it state "Your legal obligations and options "
Found the bit I have to fill in re owner but not driving
So which bit do I delete ?
' I am or have been the vehicles keeper but I was not driving at the time of the alledged offence because I
Hired / bought / sold / returned / leased / lent / assigned (delete not applicable)
the vehicle on '
So, this being a family car, which is registered in my name, and my wife chose to use on the day, which one would you lot delete ?
Because I sure didn't F g Assign her to drive it and the other options are a load of B ks
Rant nearly over
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| 08MY Discovery 3 (history) 
ed off as I was done at 44mph in a 40mph temporary roadworks at 5.30am in the morning (on A46 near J15 on M42) and got a snotty letter from the chief commssioner or whatever berating me for "endangering life" (there was none....) and basically threatening to "throw the book" at me. My thought was still "done, bang to rights" and just balances out all the other times I have driven really inappropriately.
