Member Since: 16 Jun 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1020
Windy Corner wrote:
I wouldn't use any gunk again as a preventative on the disco, the amount you have to use for our tyres is just to great, unless you have high usage so the stuff never settles.
Sorry to be negative, but HTH
Rik
I would agree with this - I put Puncturesafe into my GG AT2's - started with the front and on 267/70/17's that means 22 units, the result was imbalance of alarming proportions. I got no joy from the company - they didn't want to know just trotting out their mantra that it will distribute itself and any imbalance problem is down to youir wheels and not our product well that is I have put the treated wheels on the back where all is fine and I wont be using the stuff again on the D3.
However I continue to use it without any issue in my motorcycle tyres.
24th Feb 2012 9:52 am
MarsKy
Member Since: 23 Dec 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 847
Coming from my a car which had a run-flat system (a support ring on the wheel with normal tyres), I had to investigate these "cans of gunk" to save having to buy a new support ring any time I got a puncture, as it would get damaged trying to get home (useless system).
Anyway:
1. If you have a tyre pressure sensor on the valve, the gunk will very likely destroy it.
2. Quite often a can of gunk will only fill a 16" tyre, so you would need a few for 19" or 20" tyres.
3. Tyre fitters don't like them because they are murder to clean off.
4. Tyre fitters don't like them because they don't know what type the gunk is, and health and safety means they would need to do a COSHH assessment before touching it.
5. I ended up buying the Continental ComfortKit http://www.conticomfortkit.co.uk/ but is probably overkill, as you can distribute a normal can of gunk by slowly driving and rotating the tyres.
24th Feb 2012 11:26 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8154
Stu wrote:
Rik,
It's not being negative, it's fantastic honest feedback. I think I will go gunkless!
Thanks for your comments - one and all.
You've made the right decision More trouble than it's worth, chances of getting a puncture off road is very slim, particularly as you've got tyres with plenty of tread.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
24th Feb 2012 12:44 pm
B16 KJR
Member Since: 10 Jul 2006
Location: Rosyth, Fife
Posts: 3005
A friend of mine had this stuff applied professionaly to his new Jaguars tyres. In the end it had to be removed as he simply could not stop the vibration from unbalanced tyres. The company that applied it, ended up footing the bill to have it removed and also had to refund the initial cost of the job.
24th Feb 2012 2:09 pm
TinTentTourist
Member Since: 04 Mar 2012
Location: Dalton in Furness, Cumbria
Posts: 14
Tyre sealants - Puncturesafe (was Ultraseal)
First let me declare an interest... I have a Puncturesafe (was Ultraseal) franchise for Cumbria and North Lancashire (CA and LA postcodes). I am not trying to sell anything to anyone, or upset anyone on the forum by breaking any rules.
I have had the franchise for a nearly a year, and have developed quiet a bit of experience in the field of sealants. I do not claim to be an expert, but I have learned a lot in that time. I am happy to try and honestly contribute to the group discussions if you would like me to.
While I haven't got a D3 yet, I understand the owner of Puncturesafe does run one, and obviously has it installed in his own.
MartinThe only thing I can't resist is temptation.
9th Mar 2012 7:02 pm
Discoed
Member Since: 16 Jun 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1020
Hi TinTent
I am still waiting for someone at Puncturesafe to give me a call and explain why my wheels are now so out of balance. I added the correct amount to balanced wheels and new tyres.
I have been amazed by the total lack of customer care and support that I have experienced, makes me feel as though I have been dealing with a sharp outfit who should be being featured on Watchdog
9th Mar 2012 9:03 pm
TinTentTourist
Member Since: 04 Mar 2012
Location: Dalton in Furness, Cumbria
Posts: 14
Hi Discoed, I can't say I am the greatest fan of head office either, nor do I like the way they operate. I spent a lot of money on setting up and they just expect you to get on with it, no training, and support even for us can be very hit and miss.
The basic product I believe is good, but there can be issues and they tend not to mention them until you have them (it happened to me too!)
Imbalance... if you used a DIY kit, the product is probably under installed. I would never sell one to a D3 owner, I would always install from my 20L drum. If you give me your tyre size I will tell you how many unit the book says (a unit is 1 fluid oz or 28ml approx) that will give you an idea.
Even with a correct install, some tyres seem to have something on the inside that stops it circulating correctly - I think it is the agent that releases the tyre from the mould. Some other tyres, particularly low profiles (45 or less) have ribbing that can upset distribution around the tyre.
So... Head office say the product should settle down in 2-20 miles, I find it can take upto 100 AND sometimes they need a good run at 70mph too. If they don't settle down, a further 2-3 units can be added to see if it helps (this has worked for me) lastly the balance weights should be removed and try again.
I know the weight removal sounds odd, but polymer gels are used as balancing agents in some countries instead of weights (I've never had to try it - just what I have been told.)
Vibration is only felt through the steering wheels, so swapping the wheels round is an option too. Again I've never tried it, it's what Head Office have told me.
Personally I think it's a load of "tosh" that you have not had a response and I personally would never fob someone off until they went away. I have done a few D3s, the last one actually overtook me on the bypass on my way home, so it settled in within a couple of miles. I have also paid for cars that have not settled to be cleaned out (I've never had a penny out of Head Office for this either). So there are solutions, and I'll do my best to advise you with yours.
Sorry it's a bit of a rambling answer, but some points might help other too. As I said before, the product is good, but the staff at Head Office are sales, not installer and I find their knowledge shallow at times.
MartinThe only thing I can't resist is temptation.
Last edited by TinTentTourist on 10th Mar 2012 11:21 am. Edited 1 time in total
9th Mar 2012 11:02 pm
B16 KJR
Member Since: 10 Jul 2006
Location: Rosyth, Fife
Posts: 3005
Quote:
First let me declare an interest... I have a Puncturesafe (was Ultraseal) franchise
Nice to hear from somebody who actually deals with this, at least we can get Martins point of view/advice on the product first hand
10th Mar 2012 9:38 am
TinTentTourist
Member Since: 04 Mar 2012
Location: Dalton in Furness, Cumbria
Posts: 14
B16KJR, Thanks - I know very little about Discos, that's why I'm here, so if I can help on this topic I will do my best.
Discoed, I've just noticed your post at the top of this page with tyre size and you are correct with 22 units per tyre for that size. The way I read the post is that you bought a car DIY kit which contains 2 bottles (780ml in each, 28 units per bottle - or 2 motorbike kits, which is the same stuff only one bottle of it) and installed just your front tyres. I am also assuming you didn't buy the 2x1L bottles of off road eXtra Heavy Duty, as this is not designed to go above 60mph, it is thicker and has a higher particulate content.
Your tyres are certainly protected from punctures even if there is a vibration, but I wouldn't be happy either.
If you don't mind a bit more messing about, you could put them back on the front and see if it has settled in (I assume you have done quite a few miles since installation). If not, add a couple more units, and try it again as I mentioned above. The product should not slump to the bottom of they tyre, it is designed to stick to the rubber, but again as I mentioned above, some tyre manufacturers seem to have used a non-stick coating during production and it can take a long time for this to come off.
Also some tyres are more porous than other and can absorb some of the liquid content of the gel making it less free flowing, again the steps are designed to overcome this.
Another long post, but hopefully the info will help inform other members too.The only thing I can't resist is temptation.
10th Mar 2012 11:44 am
ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1625
Never used it but bear in mind the default spare wheel on an F2 these days is this....
The one thing that worries me, if you look at the list of motors they supply, none of them is a 3 tonne 4x4 putting a lot of stress on its tyres. I think D3/4's might be pushing the capabilities of the sealant, but that is no more than a guess. No idea if HGV's use sealants?
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10th Mar 2012 1:12 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72911
Don't get me started on piggin runflats on BMs!! Not only do you not get a spare, there's nowhere to put it as what should be the wheel well is way too small and full of battery.
I can't even leave a spare (I've got a second set) in the boot as, being the estate, it's usually filled with 2 dogs.
10th Mar 2012 1:32 pm
TinTentTourist
Member Since: 04 Mar 2012
Location: Dalton in Furness, Cumbria
Posts: 14
Hi Ruggedpeak, yes some massive vehicles use sealant, quarry wagons and loaders etc, Agricultural vehicles like tractors and so on, the list is massive too, so size is not so much of an issue.
I got into the product because I bought a car without a spare wheel, up to that point I never gave it a thought. Those kits they now supply are TOTALLY different to the product I am talking about. It is a choice for the individual to consider and these are the pros and cons as I understand them:
I can only speak about the product I am associated with, and again I do not want to appear to be trying to sell it to anyone in breach of forum rules. I am trying to explain the differences. If the site owners feel I crossed the line, please edit the post.
In car kits are for when you have a puncture. You pull over and get the kit out. You follow the instructions and install the sealant. You use the supplied pump to re inflate the tyre. If it works you drive slowly upto a maximum specified speed, and distance. You then replace the punctured tyre as the sealant usually prevents a repair. The sealant is also (usually) toxic and has a 2 year shelf life. The little tins of Holts tyre weld etc also fall into this category.
The following is starting to sound like an advert, which is not my intention. This information is available on the internet if you wish to look it up.
Pre treatment is more like taking out insurance for a problem you can foresee, rather than having something to deal with the consequences. It is not the answer to every problem, just an option to consider.
Puncturesafe is installed into a tyre before it gets a puncture, and fixes them as they happen. Different grades are available to suit requirements, but for a car it will fix up to a 6mm hole and is rated to 150mph!!! If the hole is larger or the structure of the tyre is damaged it will bleed out slowly to control the deflation. Unless the hole is very large, at about 10psi a temporary seal is formed allowing you to limp to a safe place. It is designed not to disguise a dangerous puncture.
It is not toxic and will last for the life of the tyre. It will not degrade in the tyre by either separating or balling, it will remain a gel. It can be wiped or washed away to perform a puncture repair if necessary. Holes it fixes are permanent repairs and no further action is necessary, it will cure in the repair. It will keep on fixing punctures. It does not have any effect on pressure sensors if fitted. It makes tyres last longer.
It will NOT save you from a side wall puncture, and only claims to fix 95% of all ordinary punctures. It can be more expensive than a get you home kit if you do not include the new tyre. In some wheels it causes imbalance as discussed above and there is no real way to tell in advance if it will be a problem in your tyres. Some tyre garages do not like it for a variety of reasons, and there are other brands available on the market so I would advise a little homework before making the decision to have one installed. Protex, also mentioned above ceased trading some time ago.
Sorry for yet another long post, hope the info is useful to the forum.
MartinThe only thing I can't resist is temptation.
10th Mar 2012 2:16 pm
TinTentTourist
Member Since: 04 Mar 2012
Location: Dalton in Furness, Cumbria
Posts: 14
Hi DSL, BMWs and Minis both the same. I do know of several people putting ordinary tyres on their cars an going for a what if option. I don't know of your experience, but garages will not normally repair a puncture on a run flat in case the side wall has been compromised.
Yeah.. a short post The only thing I can't resist is temptation.
10th Mar 2012 2:41 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72911
Wouldn't mind if I could carry a spare, even a runflat spare, as seen too many tyres in pieces on the side of the motorway. Unfortunately would be a but uncomfortable for Da Puppies in the boot. I know i coud just carry a bottle of goo but, call me old fashioned, but i'd far rather have a full spare. Many peeps on BM forums change to non runflats but with nowhere to put a spare that's not an option.
10th Mar 2012 2:47 pm
TinTentTourist
Member Since: 04 Mar 2012
Location: Dalton in Furness, Cumbria
Posts: 14
There is definitely no right answer! (without 20:20 hindsight) The only thing I can't resist is temptation.
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I have put the treated wheels on the back where all is fine and I wont be using the stuff again on the D3.
More trouble than it's worth, chances of getting a puncture off road is very slim, particularly as you've got tyres with plenty of tread.
