Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Colin
Cracking idea. Being interested in this project a lot, I'm assuming the controls of the D4 wheel are LIN Bus based? So is the idea to put the microcontroller in the wheel so the connection into the clockspring are native D3 resistive ladder?
Also can this method work for the floppy paddles also?
Great idea and cant wait to see your results
Ids
31st May 2013 9:45 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Hiya IDS
Yes, i am certainly feeling pretty chuffed with myself about this.
It has really great benefits in so many ways it would take pages to explain and list them.
Although the Clock spring and connectors are physically the same between a D3 and a D4, they differ in usage as the D3 uses some pins for multiple resistive ladders etc where the D4 does not have these and uses some pins for Multiple LIN bus connections from the D4 wheel switch Micro controller to the various D4 ECU's
Replacing the Boards in a D4 wheel allows me to reorient the connections and usage to mimic the D3 Resistive ladders etc on the respective pins but then i have this PITA LED back light problem.
However in this leaves no pins left to get a power feed into the Wheel or to get Flappy paddle switch outputs from the wheel to the Vehicle side to provide a way to support Flappy Paddles. Hence i had to come up with a custom Radio transmitter circuit which is powered from a supply that is parasitically drawn from the horn circuit which is quite convoluted and complex.
I got this working here OK, but am still concerned that i may encounter problems with this in the field.
Also note that i would still have to sort out a Micro controller to act as an interface between the Radio Receiver chip and the Gearbox controls to get the Flappy paddle part completed.
All of this is complex, difficult and is of course going to end up being fairly expensive too.
In the new plan, i don't intend for there to be any modification requirement to either the D4 switches or wheel at all.
Instead fitment will simply involve unplugging the Connector going into the Clock spring on the vehicle side, plugging this into our Interface and then plugging a connector from our interface in instead.
You will also have to supply our interface with a power connection.
On the clock spring and wheel side, the interface will interact with the LIN Busses of the switches processor ect just as a D4 vehicle would, but on the vehicle side, we will re create the resistive ladders that the D3 vehicle electronics are used to seeing. For sure i have already figured all that out and mastered it
The interface will also have a connection for the Gearbox controls to provide Flappy Paddle shift control and we will likely also provide CAN bus Connections for future exciting possibilities.
I am also imagining to also put a Mini USB connector on interface so it can be connected to a PC and thus be updated in the future.
Did i mention how happy i am
1st Jun 2013 3:42 pm
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Sounds great.
I'm intrested in how we will have to provide power to the module ? Am i right in saying only the newer clocksprings that are fitted to the later models with heater wheels do this ? If so its just something need to get in anticipation
Also as before intrigued what we will be able to do with the extra/free buttons. If there were some way of configuring the value via the mini USB/software then that would be perfect Sounds like a great project and something that lends itself you your expertise
Ids
2nd Jun 2013 9:43 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
ids
I guess i did not explain my new plan very well. The new module i will develop will be fitted on the VEHICLE side of the Clock Spring. It will re orient the pin usage of the connetions to the Clock spring to use them in the same way and for the same jobs as a D4 Does.
It should work on either Heated or non Heated Wheels / Clock Springs
Regards doing things with Free buttons:
While at this stage I just want to get the basics working, incorporating an upgrade capability does lend to doing all sorts of future possibilities.
For sure with this new plan, there are certainly a whole host of future possibilities, however never mind the free buttons, although i make no promises, in the future we could possibly write code for the interfaces microcontroller such that it could detect specific events like holding 2 particular buttons for more than 3 seconds to toggle all the standard button functionality from normal to something else that could for example now control the EAS heights via the CAN bus etc. We can possibly also put confirmation messages up on the Ipack Display etc.
Just another Benefit
ATB
Colin
2nd Jun 2013 4:33 pm
helterskelter
Member Since: 09 Dec 2007
Location: NE Scotland
Posts: 27
I'm interested in this. Hope you get it all sorted soon Colin It's better to burn out than to fade away.
2nd Jun 2013 8:17 pm
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Colin
Asweome news. Sounds just the ticket. Let me know if you need anything testing !
Ids
3rd Jun 2013 11:27 am
stingerrevo
Member Since: 07 Jan 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 45
Please let me know when I can get one of these boxes. I already have the steering wheel on my vehicle with the switches and they do not work as they should. This would save me so much time and effort in fixing that.
Actually I would need 2 so my wifes lr3 would work also.
Also interested in the paddle shift idea since I have those too.
Thanks.
21st Jun 2013 4:45 pm
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
I think we are all eagerly awaiting BBS's good news.......
Ids
21st Jun 2013 7:38 pm
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Hi BBS
Just wondering if there has been any progress....... been a month or so since I checked this thread
ids
5th Jul 2013 5:39 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
There has actually been quite a bit going on in respect of this project.
Firstly we have done some testing on the Resistive Ladder for the IHU that is still present on the D4 Wheel, to compare it to the Resistive ladder on the D3 wheel for the IHU.
However our findings were not good.
Despite the resistances being the same values, the order in which they are used is different.
The only way i can see to solve this is for us to create an interface that uses an Analogue to Digital convertor fed into a microcontroller, which then drives a Digital to Analogue convertor.
Not an area of which we have much expertise
Secondly, we have acquired all the hardware and software required to capture the LIN bus communications and are just starting to get it going. After we have captured what we need we will then need to decode it and figure it all out before writing software that will emulate the D4 Vehicle side of things to the D4 steering wheel controller.
Then of course we need to emulate the D3 steering wheel to the D3 Vehicle.
Lots to do.
7th Jul 2013 6:00 pm
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Sound promising if not good news..... sure it will be worth it in the end
Ids
8th Jul 2013 4:58 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Nothing is ever easy.
But once you understand things properly and fully, it is then only a matter of time and effort.
Fortunately this is what we happen to do all day and every day.
Watch this space
9th Jul 2013 7:11 pm
muddycharles
Member Since: 31 Jan 2013
Location: Miami
Posts: 5
Also a willing Full Size RR owner as a guinea pig
Hi Colin
Im a happy user of BBS and have been waiting for a flappy paddle solution for my 2008 HSE RR - Id love to also sign up for this.
Interestingly Ive gone through two of these mods in other cars - an 2003 Audi Allroad (easy to do - just configuring CAN bus modules) and a 1996 BMW 740i - (harder as I had to install a heated clock spring, use the heater wires to run a connection to the shift system to make the computer think I was manuallly engaging tiptronic mode - works like a dream and only took two wires from the clockspring (vehicle side) to the tranny. I would suspect this is possible on the range no?) (Also had to run the wires from the tiptronic paddles to the heater side on the wheel - used the AMG Mercedes paddles - came out lovely)
Cant wait for this to be available
Muddycharles
13th Jul 2013 2:53 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Hiya All
Just starting to get some base understanding of the LIN bus communications we have captured to date and so far, as expected, it does not look that complicated.
Muddycharles:
Welcome
As you will probably have read from the thread, I had designed and sucessfully tested a radio link for adding the flappy paddles and although had not done the transmission shifter end, as you seem to understand this is pretty simple by comparison. I was even planning to add a detect for the shifter being in the right mode.
While i am now planning to go a different route for all of this for the D3 and Sport, noting that the FFRR is different, being CAN bus based rather than resistive ladder, it occurred to me the other day that this radio link i had developed could still be used to add Flappy paddles to this model.
Of course i don't want to venture into getting more involved with this until we sort the D3 / Sport stuff but it is something we would certainly look into straight after that.
14th Jul 2013 5:28 pm
aljo
Member Since: 20 May 2007
Location: west sussex
Posts: 804
Keep up the good work colin
I have the paddles working by remote and its flawless
just need the radio , cruise control etc etc working now Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, where,s the f**king ceiling!!
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