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Am I correct in thinking injector 4 cylinder 5 is my problem
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Robatom
 


Member Since: 28 Nov 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3
Am I correct in thinking injector 4 cylinder 5 is my problem






Hi. I am about to change injector 4, but before I go ahead, I was hoping you guys could just help confirm this for me. šŸ˜€
I really enjoy reading things on this site, but itā€™s now my turn for help.
  
Post #231896416th Dec 2022 12:03 pm
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gstuart
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14176

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Hi

Hope u didnā€™t mind but just turned the pictures for u , sorry canā€™t help ref the injectors

Plus welcome to the asylum Laughing

Ps, plus not wishing to sound rude but when u get chance plse fill in ur profile as then it will help others know what model / year of discovery u have , thks






   
Post #231905716th Dec 2022 10:12 pm
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Breg90
 


Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 360

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 XS Manual Java BlackDiscovery 3

See this thread:

https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/need-replac...02536.html
 Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits 
 
Post #231906316th Dec 2022 10:27 pm
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Breg90
 


Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 360

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 XS Manual Java BlackDiscovery 3

Have you been for a nice long run before checking the injector balance?
What other issues do you have that might be causing over lap? HPFP pressure and pressure control stability?

Mind that the engine can't measure fuel flow through the injectors, but it can measure crank speed and knows that if speed increases excessively after a particular cylinder fires then that the injector is likely flowing more fuel than expected. So over time it will cut that injector back to compensate & vise versa if the spedd has dropped after a particular injector fires. Note injector numbering follows the firing order, i.e. it fires at injector 1, then 2, 3 and so on.

You have lots of injectors at min flow, one at max. I'd wager the one(Injector 4) at max flow is compensating for an earlier increase in crank speed - I don't think this is your issue.

I'd guess that injector 5 is cutting back as injector 4 is at max and is 'over compensating' for what is happening earlier, hence driving an excessive increase in crank speed, so injector 5 has to cut back (rippe, effect).

Beyond that I am not sure. Have you considered taking out the injectors for flow testing?

Or buy one new injector, fit in place of say injector 6 or 1, then let the engine run for a few days (with some long runs at steady speed, say motorway) then recheck?

I'd be interested in what you do and what the outcome is.
 Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits 
 
Post #231906416th Dec 2022 10:50 pm
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Flatlander
 


Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575

United Kingdom 

Injector fuel trim points to 'a' problem, not 'the' problem. an injector spill or leak-off check (same thing, different terminology) along with checking actual values in the fuel system would be a good point to start
  
Post #231906516th Dec 2022 11:04 pm
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Breg90
 


Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 360

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 XS Manual Java BlackDiscovery 3

Flatlander,

I like your point.

Adrian
 Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits 
 
Post #231906616th Dec 2022 11:06 pm
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gstuart
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14176

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Flatlander wrote:
Injector fuel trim points to 'a' problem, not 'the' problem. an injector spill or leak-off check (same thing, different terminology) along with checking actual values in the fuel system would be a good point to start


Hi

Wished to say many thks for the figures u quoted in the other thread as good to know what they should be

ā€œ acceptable range is 700-1300, 600 & 1400 are the min & max trims before a relevant DTā€

Bow down
  

Last edited by gstuart on 17th Dec 2022 5:34 am. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #231907817th Dec 2022 5:33 am
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gstuart
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14176

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Breg90 wrote:
See this thread:

https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/need-replac...02536.html


also a big thks as was also interested Thumbs Up
   
Post #231907917th Dec 2022 5:34 am
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Flatlander
 


Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575

United Kingdom 

I'd also ask, what is the problem? what symptoms are you experiencing? fuel trim limits in isolation don't really give much of a clue, I also note there are EGR DTC's set - are they blanked off?
  
Post #231908417th Dec 2022 7:19 am
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Robatom
 


Member Since: 28 Nov 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

gstuart wrote:
Hi

Hope u didnā€™t mind but just turned the pictures for u , sorry canā€™t help ref the injectors

Plus welcome to the asylum Laughing

Ps, plus not wishing to sound rude but when u get chance plse fill in ur profile as then it will help others know what model / year of discovery u have , thks





Thankyou for spinning the pics round

  
Post #231939319th Dec 2022 1:43 pm
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Robatom
 


Member Since: 28 Nov 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

Breg90 wrote:
Have you been for a nice long run before checking the injector balance?
What other issues do you have that might be causing over lap? HPFP pressure and pressure control stability?

Mind that the engine can't measure fuel flow through the injectors, but it can measure crank speed and knows that if speed increases excessively after a particular cylinder fires then that the injector is likely flowing more fuel than expected. So over time it will cut that injector back to compensate & vise versa if the spedd has dropped after a particular injector fires. Note injector numbering follows the firing order, i.e. it fires at injector 1, then 2, 3 and so on.

You have lots of injectors at min flow, one at max. I'd wager the one(Injector 4) at max flow is compensating for an earlier increase in crank speed - I don't think this is your issue.

I'd guess that injector 5 is cutting back as injector 4 is at max and is 'over compensating' for what is happening earlier, hence driving an excessive increase in crank speed, so injector 5 has to cut back (rippe, effect).

Beyond that I am not sure. Have you considered taking out the injectors for flow testing?

Or buy one new injector, fit in place of say injector 6 or 1, then let the engine run for a few days (with some long runs at steady speed, say motorway) then recheck?

I'd be interested in what you do and what the outcome is.


I have only just started to look into this problem So changing injector 4 wonā€™t be the faulty one
I was hoping it would just be the one injector that was reading high. I did have a code injector stuck closed p121b
I will keep you guys informed. Iā€™m a little slow at replying as Iā€™m. Hey with work.
I will also get readings from cold and then when up to temperature.
Egr is blanked off. Always has been since I have owned it.
Would it be worth even changing the injector 4, or would I be waisting my time?
 

Last edited by Robatom on 19th Dec 2022 2:01 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #231939419th Dec 2022 1:47 pm
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Robatom
 


Member Since: 28 Nov 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

Flatlander wrote:
I'd also ask, what is the problem? what symptoms are you experiencing? fuel trim limits in isolation don't really give much of a clue, I also note there are EGR DTC's set - are they blanked off?


The egr is blanked off.
The problem I have is when itā€™s started up. Itā€™s missing. Drive round for a while and it seems to be a lot better, but can still slightly feel the miss.
Leave it ticking over for a while and drive away and you get a lot of smoke. It also smells of Unburnt diesel a lot.
Discovery 3 tdv6 2005 HSE
  
Post #231939519th Dec 2022 1:52 pm
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Flatlander
 


Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575

United Kingdom 

Then either play whack-a-mole with one injector and a slack handful of copper seals or get a spill/leak-off test done, the guilty b'stard will soon show itself.
  
Post #231941019th Dec 2022 3:27 pm
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Robatom
 


Member Since: 28 Nov 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

Laughing I will try the spill test when I get time. If not Iā€™ll play the injector game. I will let you know how I get on. Could be a while though with work and Christmas coming up Big Cry
  
Post #231956920th Dec 2022 9:37 pm
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