Member Since: 03 May 2022
Location: Reigate & Winchester
Posts: 6
Faulty EPB shoes
As usual, great info on this forum.
I recently changed my rear brake pads and discs, and decided that while I was at it I would change the EPB shoes which were looking a bit thin. I was able to buy the (Pagid) shoes locally at Euro Car Parts who have been my go to place for most of my parts over the years.
Anyway, to abbreviate the story, I replaced and adjusted the shoes using the excellent Bodsies brake instructions. All straight forward so far……
So, to the brake shoe bedding in procedure. I followed the procedure to the letter. On the fourth out of the ten EPB applications specified in the bedding in procedure the parking brake jammed and in releasing and retrying the epb the dreaded “noise” when applying the EPB began. I was on my road so drove the 4/500 yards home with the brakes dragging.
When I got home I had to pull the emergency brake release in order to get the rear discs off…..
and I found that the brake lining had become detached from all four shoes! This is what they looked like after I had removed them.
Click image to enlarge
The result was also that my brand new discs were scored. So I returned everything to Euro Car Parts. They said that they would have to return them to Pagid for a Warranty claim.
So, not wanting to buy more Pagid shoes, I bought new discs (Brembo) and replacement shoes at GSF, and spent a few hours replacing them again and winding back the EPB module with the help of Disco Mikeys excellent instructions.
So to the real point of the post. After chasing up Euro Car Parts for two months, they finally responded that they have a reply from Pagid. They state that they found no fault with the shoes and that excessive heat must have disbonded the friction material, and the Euro Car Parts man insinuated that “perhaps a problem with alignment or something” or words to that effect might have been a cause.
Im pretty disappointed. I am a decent and experienced home mechanic. As far as I’m concerned I fitted and adjusted everything correctly and drove a matter of a mile or so getting only part way through the bedding in procedure before this happened. Its cost me a second set of shoes and a second set of discs.
I am truly interested if anyone has any suggestions about anything I might have done wrong.
Anyway, I’m not sure what I gain by posting this apart from documenting it in case it happens to anyone else.
But at the moment Im definitely not using Euro Car Parts, or Pagid brake parts.
30th Jul 2022 12:03 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8243
I almost question if they are genuine Pagid. A friend of mine bought two Fiesta front coil springs from ECP he had to take them off after 4 weeks because they had compressed by 3” It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
30th Jul 2022 12:47 pm
D4mation
Member Since: 29 Jul 2011
Location: Ruralshire
Posts: 593
I'm interested in this bedding in proceedure when fitting new EPB shoes.
I recently had new shoes fitted by my local franchise (big name but not going to mention it) and they made no mention of a bedding in procedure - but perhaps they did it before returning the car ?
There's been no problem since with the EPB and I use it all the time.MY12 D4 HSE Ipanema Sand
31st Jul 2022 9:59 am
Jacks11
Member Since: 17 May 2022
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 83
Hope the OP gets it sorted. What is the bedding in procedure?
31st Jul 2022 9:37 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
They are brake shoes, 10 brake applications are nowheres near enough to bed any brake shoe to a brake drum.
I have seen hgv brake shoes that have been in use for weeks still not fully bedded in, though they still passed the brake test empty and loaded.
So I would suggest the bedding in procedure is a waste of time and effort, and in this case money.
31st Jul 2022 10:11 pm
PaulGa
Member Since: 03 May 2022
Location: Reigate & Winchester
Posts: 6
Jacks11 wrote:
Hope the OP gets it sorted. What is the bedding in procedure?
The bedding in procedure can be found in Bodsys Brake Bible.
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8243
lynalldiscovery wrote:
They are brake shoes, 10 brake applications are nowheres near enough to bed any brake shoe to a brake drum.
I have seen hgv brake shoes that have been in use for weeks still not fully bedded in, though they still passed the brake test empty and loaded.
So I would suggest the bedding in procedure is a waste of time and effort, and in this case money.
RUBBISH! - if it takes weeks to bed in HGV brakes it will take years to bed parking brakes in as they are only applied when stationary, but what if an emergency should arise whilst travelling at speed and they are not bedded in? I would respectfully suggest a bedding in procedure is carried out on all HGV vehicles before being loaded and in fact I would and do carry one out on any vehicle I fit new pads or shoes to.
I would advise the original poster to contact Trading Standards ASAP, if the adhesive is not capable of resisting high temperatures it should not be used, my thoughts are they are counterfeit and should be removed from the market ASAP, what if this happened to disc pads when braking at high speed? - no doubt ECP have lost/destroyed the evidence.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
1st Aug 2022 6:20 am
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
That is exactly my point, you simply cannot bed in parking brake shoes by applying them a few times.
I assume you realise that when the epb is applied whilst the vehicle is moving it also applies the service brakes? and if anyone thinks the handbrake shoes alone can stop a discovery travelling at speed
1st Aug 2022 7:23 am
pko
Member Since: 06 Apr 2006
Location: usually in the pub
Posts: 398
Just a thought. If it's essential to bed brakes in, why am I never told this when I buy a new car? I just collect it from the showroom and use as normal.never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly
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1st Aug 2022 10:16 am
N5Fav
Member Since: 28 Jan 2021
Location: LEICESTER
Posts: 134
I would print off the Pagid instruction sheet, go back to ECP, ask to see the manager, explain that you carried out these instructions to the letter, and if they don't refund your money you will be talking to trading standards and and looking at a small claim court action.
Keep your conversation civil and polite, but firm at all times, it's not the managers fault, but he's the one that can help you.1994 Defender 300tdi 110 commercial
2007 Disco 2.7 XS Buckingham Blue
1959 Standard 10 Coffe & Cream
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1st Aug 2022 11:48 am
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
pko wrote:
Just a thought. If it's essential to bed brakes in, why am I never told this when I buy a new car? I just collect it from the showroom and use as normal.
Discs/pads are rarely an issue, general rule of thumb is be careful for a hundred or so miles and all will be good.
Discs and pads are quicktfit work, ie pretty much anyone can do them with very little risk of any issues.
Drums on the other hand are a royal pita, hgv ones even more so.
1st Aug 2022 1:55 pm
Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
The EPB 'bedding in' procedure is there for two reasons - firstly, to ensure the shoes are correctly centred and secondly - but more importantly, to bed the soft friction material into used brake discs.
The material is soft so as to have a high friction coefficient, it is not a service brake (unlike truck brakes) so doesn't need to have any kind of longevity built in. Neither does it need to have particularly high heat dissipation as it's not a service brake.
If 4/10th's of bedding in process was completed within 500 Yards, then it clearly was not followed 'to the letter'
Secton 3
Quote:
Once the Service Bedding-in procedure mode has been entered, the electronic parking brake linings can be bedded-in by conducting 10 repeated stops from 30 - 35 kph (19 - 22 mph), followed by a 500 metre (547 yard) interval between each stop to allow the brakes to cool, using the electronic parking brake control switch.
ETA - I'm assuming the EPB was put into the 'off' position after each stop? the drive-away release isn't functional whilst the bedding-in mode is active.
1st Aug 2022 5:05 pm
PaulGa
Member Since: 03 May 2022
Location: Reigate & Winchester
Posts: 6
Flatlander,
I did carry out the procedure to the letter.
I carried out the bedding in procedure up and down my road, so of course its possible for it to have occurred 500 yards from my house…….Besides, before moving off and applying the EPB again at 19-29 mph, you only need to wait 60 seconds for cooling (or drive 500 meters according to Bodsy or 1mile according to Pagid). I waited the 60 seconds between applications so didnt get far.
Thanks everyone for the input.
I see that clearly opinions vary as to whether the procedure is necessary. However, as I believe that it is specified in a Land Rover service bulletin, it can’t be seen as “wrong” to carry it out.
I carried it out similarly “to the letter” after replacing the duff Euro Car Parts shoes with the ones I bought from GSF to no ill effects….
2nd Aug 2022 5:50 am
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
Flatlander wrote:
The EPB 'bedding in' procedure is there for two reasons - firstly, to ensure the shoes are correctly centred and secondly - but more importantly, to bed the soft friction material into used brake discs.
Surely the drum friction area will not be worn? as you quite rightly says it is not a service brake.
2nd Aug 2022 6:37 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20855
I would say the bedding in procedure in necessary
Our workshop is on quite a steep hill. After fitting, the EPB will not hold the car on said hill
After bedding in has been carried out, it will hold just fine My D3 Build Thread
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