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lee01277
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Shed
Posts: 821
  
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BN, a sub zero blast of air does wonders for getting night out of the system, and I'm more than sure that when you have bottomed out the R/C option, you will have more new best friends that you will know what to do with !!  ..............Somewhere in-between my old D3 and what's to come next .........
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 22nd Nov 2005 8:14 am |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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BN wrote:Guys, it is so frustrating, I have done so much work and yet you still try to achieve the unachievable. If Webasto with their world team cannot crack it easily (and they make the blooming heater), you lot ain't going to do it in your jammies.
Some cars will not even set as Gareths does and the last MY06 don't even have the settings anymore. I will let you know when we have a confirmed modification.
But I think what most of are trying to do is to salvage something from the situation. I paid £43K for my car and one way or another I want it to work. I am happyish to go out in my jammies to set the timer in the morning because the effect is so good. I am not trying to cure anything, just to get it to work in some form. If it knackers it then there is a warranty and LR can replace it 
If you and Webasto sort out a solution then great I will be in the queue to pay out more money and have the system installed until then I shall muddle along in case nothing comes of your work. DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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| 22nd Nov 2005 9:34 am |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
 
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The real problem is LR not deleting the section in the manuals / tech info and the menu in the Settings Menu screen.
As they appear not to have got it working as they hoped they really should have told the software engineers and the documentation team.
I have never seen it advertised or mentioned in any sales and marketing materials that there is a controllable Pre-Heat or Pre-Cool feature.
This is why we all feel it should work. So its kinda debatable if its a fault or a feature not implemented.
Agree would be grand to have it working - especially after having to leave for London at 6AM a number of morning recently. But then, the FBH starts the warm air coming into the car VERY quickly which to me is a very welcome feature that no other car I've owned has managed to do.
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| 22nd Nov 2005 10:06 am |
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Mossy
Member Since: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Hollyoaks, UK
Posts: 2687
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I agree with Simon, I would be trying my damdest to get it working if it was on the car.
No different from the Blue tooth integration that was promissed in the early blurb but unavialble to so many on purchase.
if there's a button to press I want to press it, if there's a knob to turn I expect to be able to turn it. D3 HSE V8...
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| 22nd Nov 2005 10:12 am |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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Simon I ordered my car in the June 2004, it was talked about a lot then as was phone, adaptive headlights, the latter were told that it was not possible to have them at the time of order, but no mention of the pre heater.
I feel that if my FBH stops working due to an error that LR can't fix then they will have to replace it due to my warranty. I have not altered the car in any way all I have found is a system works if the radio is left on. I feel they would loose in court if they failed to replace the defective part in the event of an incurable error. For that reason I will continue with the radio trick - whilst making sure it continues in its other role! DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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| 22nd Nov 2005 10:58 am |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
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No worries and understand / agree here.
I am wanting it to work... especially as I now have access to the ghost menu to set the timer.
Will mention this at my 30K service as effectively its a new 'fault' for me to pint out.
Lets see what they say and what they get back from LR. Now the cold weathers here its the first time I have tried to use it of course.
-s
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| 22nd Nov 2005 11:09 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26779
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simon wrote:No worries and understand / agree here.
I am wanting it to work... especially as I now have access to the ghost menu to set the timer.
Will mention this at my 30K service as effectively its a new 'fault' for me to pint out.
Lets see what they say and what they get back from LR. Now the cold weathers here its the first time I have tried to use it of course.
-s
I bet the dealers are sick of hearing about it by now!
I know all the issues, and fully understand and appreciate what Brian is saying and doing with Webasto. I also will continue to use mine as I did all last winter with the radio. I also don't for a moment think that Land Rover will resolve this on our vehicles, and a solution will eventually come from Brian/Webasto's efforts in the end.
I am playing along with this thread as their are many new members who will not have read all of mine/ecosse/bn and others extensive posts last winter on this very subject. The difference is that we now know the situation from last winter, and can advise others accordingly.
Land Rover have, by deleting the option from the current build, made their position clear - they either do not, or cannot make it work for the early cars, and it is acceptable for them to have what will be a relativley small percentage of the customer base who are not entirely satisfied with the situation.
Most owners will not know anything about this and will say nothing to the dealer, or will accept the flim flam without question.
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| 22nd Nov 2005 11:47 am |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Gareth, well said. I will add a point:
When I was about to purchase my car I wrote to the dealer asking about the heater and I was told by the sales girl that it DID HAVE A PRE HEATER AND IT WOULD WORK THE SAME AS THE RANGE ROVER I had at the time, which was 2 yeats old and brilliant. Purchase made.
It did not when I tried it, so I received a very large discount because the vehicle was to work in very cold areas and I needed the pre heater to work.
The dealer who is excellent, tried to get their money back from LR or get the heater to work, but failed on both counts.
Moral, go to the dealer if you have the settings and ask for a refund to the value of the fully working heater
IF
you have the original data which was on the LR web site stating such. After my claim it disappeared within 24 hours.
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| 22nd Nov 2005 12:19 pm |
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Pete
Member Since: 22 Nov 2005
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 2
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I found this forum trying to solve the problem of my non-working FBH. I followed the advice given with the radio and got it to work for the first time. So thought I say thanks to everyone that has given their input.
One quick question though. I've seen several comments about potential damage. Is this just to the heater or to another part of the car? If it's just the heater then I might as well used it til it breaks - I'll be no worse off than before I got it working.
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| 22nd Nov 2005 1:23 pm |
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DrLex
Member Since: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Ciderspace [Oi be in Zummerset]
Posts: 4863
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BN wrote:..
you have the original data which was on the LR web site stating such. After my claim it disappeared within 24 hours.
Therein lies the crunch -
It is cheaper for LR to work on doing this properly and make it part of a specific MY and pay out a couple of grand to a handful of owners who have a case supported by evidence than it is to work on a retro-fit solution for the couple of thousand models that are out here now. Look at the effort that BN and Webasto have put into this already. The product liability issue hardly makes this a Ford Pinto situation for LR.
Now if those thousand owners all had the web-page or joined a class action, then you might swing LR over to the retro-fit path.... Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Member of Club Med Sucks
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| 22nd Nov 2005 1:57 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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Personally, I'd rather work with LR than join the litigation culture and be seen to be against them. Historically, companies that have litigation problems tend to bolt the doors, removing any public access to info and placing gagging orders on their suppliers, which benefits no-one
but that's just my opinion 
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| 22nd Nov 2005 2:08 pm |
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DrLex
Member Since: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Ciderspace [Oi be in Zummerset]
Posts: 4863
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10forcash wrote:Personally, I'd rather work with LR than join the litigation culture and be seen to be against them. Historically, companies that have litigation problems tend to bolt the doors, removing any public access to info and placing gagging orders on their suppliers, which benefits no-one
but that's just my opinion
And long may you express it, sir!
The debacle involving Sony and their Digital Rights Management on certain US-issued CDs shows that public opinion and law suits can change misguided corporation decisions (words chosen carefully). I'd like LR to 'fess up and say "yes, we had a problem in that we only half-implemented the feature and we will either fix it or offer a small sum for the lost versatility". How likely is this without some sort of push? Other threads relate of the LR 'nothing is wrong' stance on a number of issues.
It's certainly a hot topic (pun intended) that is being discussed sensibly. Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Member of Club Med Sucks
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| 22nd Nov 2005 5:28 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Pete wrote:I found this forum trying to solve the problem of my non-working FBH. I followed the advice given with the radio and got it to work for the first time. So thought I say thanks to everyone that has given their input.
One quick question though. I've seen several comments about potential damage. Is this just to the heater or to another part of the car? If it's just the heater then I might as well used it til it breaks - I'll be no worse off than before I got it working.
Hi Pete and a warm welcome. The Webasto thread(s) possibly take up more than any other. The worst you can do is that the heater will set its own error and stop working. Warranty should cover it, but if LR read the error, if they can, we are not sure, who knows.
Error:
------
Fault 1...........................................................................Fault 36
State of fault........................................................stored
Code..................................................................................24
Counter................................................................................3
Temperature...........................................................................48 [°C]
Operating state................................................................Off state
Voltage............................................................................12,44 [V]
Operating hour counter............................................................259:57 [h:m]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
09.11.05 15:13:48 Webasto Thermo Test 2002 1.19
Above is the print out of mine which was taken by Webasto experts after causing my error. They could not reset the error and neither can LR. It is a new heater if the error sets in, cost don't ask.
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| 22nd Nov 2005 7:39 pm |
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zig
Member Since: 09 Sep 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 650
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On my 06 model a Thermo Top Z is fitted. Did earlier models have the Thermo Top C fitted or have they always been Thermo Top Zs?
As I understand it the Thermo Top Z is a supplementary heater i.e. it adds to the heat generated by the engine output and as such is only designed to work when the engine is running.
On the otherhand the Thermo Top C is an auxiliary heater which can be used to preheat the interior/defrost windscreens and preheat the engine.
The main difference between the Thermo Top Z and Thermo Top C is that the Thermo Top C has a circulation pump. However, a retrofit kit is available to convert the Thermo Top Z into an auxiliary heater (adds the circulation pump).
With the engine off, if a way can be found of operating a Thermo Top Z without the retrofit kit, is there not a risk of overheating the heater as the engine will not be circulating the coolant?
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| 22nd Nov 2005 11:41 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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zig wrote:On my 06 model a Thermo Top Z is fitted. Did earlier models have the Thermo Top C fitted or have they always been Thermo Top Zs?
As I understand it the Thermo Top Z is a supplementary heater i.e. it adds to the heat generated by the engine output and as such is only designed to work when the engine is running.
On the otherhand the Thermo Top C is an auxiliary heater which can be used to preheat the interior/defrost windscreens and preheat the engine.
The main difference between the Thermo Top Z and Thermo Top C is that the Thermo Top C has a circulation pump. However, a retrofit kit is available to convert the Thermo Top Z into an auxiliary heater (adds the circulation pump).
With the engine off, if a way can be found of operating a Thermo Top Z without the retrofit kit, is there not a risk of overheating the heater as the engine will not be circulating the coolant?
good info, looking at mine, it appears to have a circulation pump... an '06MY that said, stratification should provide heat transfer....
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| 22nd Nov 2005 11:44 pm |
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