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HWN
Member Since: 23 Feb 2018
Location: Near Llanybydder (near Puff!)
Posts: 4600
  
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RRSTDV8 wrote:I'm interested by the idea of a war on political correctness mentioned in the topic title. That sentiment shows a total lack of understanding that political correctness, albeit a misguided approach, is an attempt to redress the inherent imbalance in society. To think that there needs to be a war says more about the white men who complain about it, than it does about the idea of political correctness itself.
As the "pale, male and stale" person lacking understanding in this instance, I probably ought to respond. I don't think the "it's PC gone mad" cry correlates with resistance to levelling playing-fields and correcting imbalances. It does, however, indicate frustration at the way edicts are unilaterally imposed - typically without any consultation - and the level of detail applied. A blackboard is black in the same way that a whiteboard is white: I don't even make a mental connection between the colour of my skin and the word 'whiteboard'; banning 'blackboard' could be taken as a sign that black people are so weak and fragile that they need protection from such potential hurt - is that really the case? I think not. One of the first I remembering encountering was 'personhole' - doesn't 'man' cover the whole species of both sexes?
How on earth do they get on in languages like French where even tables have gender? Is a waitress any less capable than a waiter, a comedienne any less entertaining that a comedian?
Who arbitrates the subjects and level of detail? If I don't agree or accidentally use the word "actress" rather than "actor" or unthinkingly 'dead-name' someone I have called "Wayne" for the forty years before they became "Waynetta", I could/would be vilified online, lose my job, etc., Who is the court of appeal? Twitter? A survey of a thousand female actors? A survey of a thousand female actors and a thousand male actors? Even if the hypothetical Waynetta was not at all offended, the consequences would be the same.
A whole generation has now been conditioned with knee-jerk reactions to words and phrases without going through the process of thinking about the why, how and potential level of offence. The same generation shouts "racist!" at any mention of race or perceived racial aspect.
"Gammon" is thrown around on here sometimes but could be seen as intentionally offensive. I seem to recall "Jock" having a similar effect.
Anything constructive taken to an extreme can become destructive.
My two theories:
1) Much "racism" is actually "culturalism";
2) The racist/homophobic grandmothers, colonels, etc., are actually the honest ones: there are probably many more who hold similar views but don't express them and will continue to do so.
The forces? Don't expect someone to watch your back and fight with you if you have spent years giving them abuse. Everyone fights to get their mates home, not themselves. 2015 Volvo V40
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 13th Apr 2021 8:14 am |
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RogB
Member Since: 15 Jun 2018
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 1738
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having sat in on fairly high level briefings etc including many multi national briefings then the terminology used on the ground is never used at that level, only military terminology was used.
its only the boots on the ground that refer to lads, guys, men etc and nobody EVER took offence at that level in the time I served. Like I said previously nobody on the ground levels are bothered by such minor terminology, only by the ability to do a job. A squaddie is a squaddie no matter what.
This drive towards PC in every aspect of the armed forces just smacks of the current 'cancel culture' and the hierarchy covering their own butts so they cant be sued by the one individual who decides to take offence at such trivial terminology.
of course any more serious, intentional or derogatory terminology should be dealt with accordingly but the use of the words lads to describe a group of soldiers is beneath trivial IMO. 2011 D4 XS 305 MY12 - gone but not forgotten
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| 13th Apr 2021 8:19 am |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
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The armed forces are still employers at the end of the day. Employment laws and what is and is not acceptable continually evolve.
A lot of fuss about nothing in my opinion.  2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
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| 13th Apr 2021 8:35 am |
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Ivan
Member Since: 01 Mar 2011
Location: Malvern Worcestershire
Posts: 692
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Moo wrote:Who says I haven't served.... 
Of my family that served. Two are racists (one of whom retired as a Colonel), one is a communist the other became a pacifist. Amongst them one was awarded a MC.
All saw combat.
Well did you serve? You are keen to mention your family having served but nothing about yourself. 2013 RR Vogue SE SDV8
2013 Freelander 2 HSE Luxury SD4
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| 13th Apr 2021 9:05 am |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14482
  
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Nothing glorious: 1986-1990. RCT. Medical discharge pre Sandhurst (accident on a log run).
Anyway, back on topic. I agree with both sides of this argument. The world is going to 'woke and snowflakey' and this is an example of that, however, the MoD is an employer so has to be cognoscente of the fact that it has a responsibility to its employees. Its not great but that's as it it. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
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| 13th Apr 2021 10:03 am |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
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Storm on a tea cup.
Back in the day when many parts of the armed forces were still male only it was fine. That’s not the case anymore though. If I was addressing a meeting, I wouldn’t refer to a mixed workforce in the singular sex, it would be rude.
I don’t see the difference between civvy street and the armed forces in that respect. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
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| 13th Apr 2021 11:12 am |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10844
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I love this:-
Examples of gender-neutral language in the workplace include:
"Chairperson" instead of "Chairman"
"Spokesperson" instead of "Spokesman"
"Salesperson" instead of "Salesman"
"Flight attendant" instead of "Stewardess" or "Flight attendant"
Source:- https://inglesconkillian.com/blog/politica...e-learners
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| 8th Dec 2024 4:36 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
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Chairman used to be considered gender neutral, but it's origin is obvious and some female chairs might prefer that it is not used. In which case I'd use Chairwoman and especially so if there are both male and female chairs.
Or if in any doubt, I'd use Chairperson as a safe option and everyone knows what it means.
Language and practices have constantly evolved over the years, so I don't get bothered by such things. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 8th Dec 2024 5:07 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13606
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I don't see why "Chair" can't be used instead of Chairman/Chairwoman/Chairperson.
The Chair chairs the meetings so it seems reasonable as a non-offending alternative. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 8th Dec 2024 9:55 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13606
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NJSS wrote:
"Flight attendant" instead of "Stewardess" or "Flight attendant"
Generally called "cabin crew" these days as they work in the passenger cabin, in contrast to the people that do the flying, on the flight deck, who are called "flight crew".
So much easier and less prone to antagonising easily-triggered types. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 8th Dec 2024 10:00 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
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RRSTDV8 wrote:I don't see why "Chair" can't be used instead of Chairman/Chairwoman/Chairperson.
The Chair chairs the meetings so it seems reasonable as a non-offending alternative.
I agree.
I just tend to do refer to Chairman/woman/person and of course some meetings have co-chairs or multiple chairs. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 8th Dec 2024 11:55 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
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Talking about Chairman/woman:
?feature=shared 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 8th Dec 2024 11:56 pm |
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Discologist_2
Member Since: 22 Jun 2020
Location: York
Posts: 4
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I'm not sure where anyone is getting the idea that this is being somehow ordered from on high. All the cases I've been aware of came from complaints made by troops. Incidentally, that's a handy inclusive term that might have helped avoid any awkwardness.
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| 11th Dec 2024 2:03 pm |
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