Member Since: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leics
Posts: 181
Motolab - how wise you are....
So, the mini saga continues. I have now found that it is the w-bus controller that seems to be causing the heater issues.
After doing a small amount of testing yesterday I noticed it had the 11h and 81h errors logged again (after testing the w-bus controller via my remote control). I unplugged the w-bus controller, reflashed the heater again and now CAN is error code free once again.
I have now used the car twice when 3c temperature outside and the FBH has fired up both times perfectly, with no errors logged at all.
I contacted the w-bus Romanian designer again and asked him in detail how the unit works.
He has explained to me that it sends a 'keep alive' command via w-bus to the heater ALL THE TIME, every 5 seconds, regardless of if a start/stop command has been issued. He also explained that the start command is proceeded by a 'clear faults' command too.
My suspicion is that either the hex command he is using to clear faults is not the correct one (maybe a clear lockout code for a different heater type?) or the constant 5 second w-bus keep alive command is interfering with the CAN bus messaging and the unit doesn't like it.
I am thinking it is more likely the clear codes message is the issue - only because that is the one that is asking the heater to change something, rather than just ping it.
Either way, the controller looks like the culprit - so Motolab, you were right (as you knew..) these things don't just go wrong on their own!
The question now is what type of controller do I go for now?
How are people finding the www.lr-fbh.co.uk one ? Does anyone know how it technically works - in terms of what commands sent by it via w-bus and any keep alive messages etc?
(on a side note, I am documenting all of this here just in case it helps anyone else in future too - apologies for being verbose)
I've been reading this with interest itguy as I bought the same controller you have recently.
Came quickly from Romania carefully wrapped in an old wedding invitation!
It appeared to work fine, but I too noticed that the fbh would only run via the remote and not automatically on startup.
This is what I get when checking the codes
If I clear this it may work once then stop again, and the code comes back.
This only happened after fitting the controller, so I suspected that was the cause.2012 Discovery 4 HSE Sumatra Black
2008 Discovery 3 HSE, Java Black
2010 Discovery 4 HSE, Stornoway Grey
2005 Discovery 3 HSE, Buckingham Blue
1987 Defender 90, some sort of grey
1983 Series 3 SWB, Ex Coastguard, Trafalgar Blue
9th Mar 2021 12:06 pm
itguy
Member Since: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leics
Posts: 181
Interesting - thank you for posting.
Yes, that is the same error that I have. Do you have the Webasto WTT software and diagnostic cable? I only ask as I fear that your heater may have suffered the same fate as mine - in that the firmware might be partially corrupted on it now.
Do you know if yours still works by the car starting it itself (via CAN) ?
Read and clear codes - then view live data after pressing remote start button (fbh runs):
Stop via remote and start car to see if it runs via CAN - shows the following errors:
Live data from car start (outside temp is below zero and full tank of fuel) - fbh does not run:
Click image to enlarge
I suppose the next job is to remove the controller, reset everything and see if it works.2012 Discovery 4 HSE Sumatra Black
2008 Discovery 3 HSE, Java Black
2010 Discovery 4 HSE, Stornoway Grey
2005 Discovery 3 HSE, Buckingham Blue
1987 Defender 90, some sort of grey
1983 Series 3 SWB, Ex Coastguard, Trafalgar Blue
9th Mar 2021 1:39 pm
itguy
Member Since: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leics
Posts: 181
Ok, that looks the same issues as mine.
If you power down the w-bus controller, that is enough to remove it from the testing process.
I expect if you then try to clear the codes from the heater using your Hawkeye, it will just bring them back again.
If you have the Webasto diagnostic cable (from the shop on here, or elsewhere) and you log in to the heater using the WTT software, you will probably see that the fuel type is now 'neutral' where it should be diesel - hence the firmware that has a fault and needs reflashing. No amount of fuse out, reboot, power off etc etc will fix this issue if you have it. It will need to be re-flashed to work again
I am in a decent dialogue with the creator (Radu Rek) of the w-bus controller, and have pointed him at this thread so he knows it isn't just me too !!
I will obviously help you in whatever way I can to get yours working as per OEM again, the best I can. I suspect Radu Rek will as well as he has been v helpful to me.
9th Mar 2021 1:53 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5059
Isn't there quite a few members on here using this Romanian chaps W-bus controller? I wonder what there experience's are?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
9th Mar 2021 3:28 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5059
You could PM Bleeding knuckles or one of the others in this thread and see how it performs for them!
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
Keep in mind, that the LR Webasto units have LR specific LR software, ordered that way by LR..
Webasto LR, BMW, Merc. VW etc. ARE NOT the same as universal Webasto parking heaters... (LR D3 are even Auxillary heaters) developed as such (well.... hmm yes from 2006 on atleast)
Although they seem to react on W-bus signals, like a Webasto 1533 W-bus clock and this "generic" W-bus controller, the LR webasto doen NOT start on a original Webasto W-bus Thermo Call (for reasons only LR knows) or... maybe for the same reason? perhaps?
so do not blame the Romanian guy, as he developed and does sell only generetic Webasto controlers
it is also possible that only certain Webasto/LR ECU's doe have this "feature" 8) maybe even a certain LR D3 onboard ECU with a certain firmware version?
so have also a look at the LR firmware version you have on the controling car ECUBest regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
I will obviously help you in whatever way I can to get yours working as per OEM again, the best I can. I suspect Radu Rek will as well as he has been v helpful to me.
Many thanks,
Tbh I hadn't really noticed until I read this as I was using it remotely when required but it would make sense to have it functioning properly.
Also Spring is coming, maybe!
Cheers2012 Discovery 4 HSE Sumatra Black
2008 Discovery 3 HSE, Java Black
2010 Discovery 4 HSE, Stornoway Grey
2005 Discovery 3 HSE, Buckingham Blue
1987 Defender 90, some sort of grey
1983 Series 3 SWB, Ex Coastguard, Trafalgar Blue
10th Mar 2021 12:14 pm
itguy
Member Since: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leics
Posts: 181
I have had lengthy discussions with the seller who has answered my technical questions about how it actually works (ie what codes it is sending to the FBH, when, etc etc). This unit also DOES NOT reset any codes or anything funny.
This is described as a 'simple' unit, in that it doesn't send anything out on W-BUS when in standby, and when activated, it sends a 'start' command, then a status check message to keep the communications open with the heater (while activated) then 'stop' when deactivated. That is all.
Sounds exactly like what I need, so will give it a try.
11th Mar 2021 9:11 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5059
Yeah that is a simpler controller and has been used my members on here previously. You just need to make the connections and provide the start signal yourself.
Member Since: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leics
Posts: 181
Thanks - I was planning on using my 433mhz remote control receiver which has a relay on it to switch the +12v trigger supply to it. My receiver is a latching one, so 'on' and 'off', so should work fine I hope...
11th Mar 2021 1:50 pm
itguy
Member Since: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leics
Posts: 181
Well I’m pleased to report that over the last few days it has been cold enough for the FBH to fire up and it has worked flawlessly with the reflashing I did and no other wiring / W-BUS controllers etc etc, so it doesn’t look like there is any long lasting issues with my FBH circuit board or coding.
13th Mar 2021 7:39 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5059
So that's with the w-bus controller disconnected?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
13th Mar 2021 9:54 pm
itguy
Member Since: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leics
Posts: 181
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