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Transmission judder, my decision.
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Mark-w
 


Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124

England 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3
Transmission judder, my decision.

About a year ago after towing a long way I noticed a very slight judder in 3rd gear, research on here lead me to believing the torque converter was on its way out, however at the time it was very minimal,
Fast forward a year and over the last couple of months it's got considerably worse and I've been thinking about what to do, the car was checked over by my friends garage who have always done the work in the car including the last service (it had a full Land Rover dealer service history till then, but at 110,000 miles and 10 years old I decided dealer serving was a pointless expense) at that check the propshaft centre bearing was found worn so a new propshaft was fitted, this didn't stop the judder, but then again I wasn't expecting it too.
After towing again last Saturday I decided things were too bad and I needed to take action, I considered changing the car but as it's 2006 there's not all that much value left in it and any discovery 4's I could find seemed to be around £18,000+ and at that price had around 90,000 miles on them. The decision was simple it wasn't worth changing the car. It doesn't do many miles and it was too much money to change, I might as well stick with the car I know.
So the research started on here to see about changing the torque converter, I contacted one transmission specialist who was prepared to fit an exchange tc but I wasn't totally convinced, I then contacted Martin Lowe transmissions at Barnsley after reading good things about them on the forum, they said fitting a tc alone was a waste of money saying it would curr things short term but as the overall issue was wear in the box the judder would eventually return, they explained things very well and came across as very knowledgeable.
I had a word with my mechanic friend who looks after a few D3's and has one himself, he agreed and thought it not a good idea to fit a tc alone, saying it wouldn't be a job he'd be prepared to do unless a customer was totally insistent on it,
So know I'm booked in at Martin Lowe's for a full transmission rebuild including a new tc, from talking to them I believe they fit an exchange unit to save time, they described this as an uprated transmission, they want the car about a working week as apparently once complete they put some miles on it making sure it's 100%, the work then has a full guarantee.
The car should come back good as new, at least in the transmission department, seeing as the car has always had everything spent on it that it needed hopefully we should be good for a good few more years life from it,
Not a cheap job, but hopefully money well spent and certainly cheaper than changing the car,
 D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.

D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone

Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:

Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy 
 
Post #18435173rd Aug 2017 7:16 am
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BrettKaz
 


Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Did you speak to Geoff who flushed your gearbox? ZF 26 110miles finished? Your kidding?
  
Post #18435193rd Aug 2017 7:37 am
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D&G
 


Member Since: 29 Jun 2017
Location: Charente 16480
Posts: 3483

Ukraine 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Barolo BlackDiscovery 3

I will be interested other forum's members opinions on this.

Mine is in for a new TC next week.
 An honorable defeat is better than a dishonorable victory.” ― Millard Fillmore



2006 Disco 3
Gas Gas 300ec / Gas Gas tx249 / Bandit 1250
XR 650r / Pajero 2.8 Lifted and Safari Snorkel-gone. 
 
Post #18435213rd Aug 2017 7:45 am
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Mark-w
 


Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124

England 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Transmission was flushed nearly 4 years ago when I got the car, I remember Geoff commenting at the time that the old oil was as good as he had seen, but I don't know if that was the original oil or not.
With regards to the box being u/s at 110,000 miles apparently the judderis caused by a pressure issue within the box causing the tc to glaze, something to do with the pressure the zf box runs at. Martin sounded extremely knowledgeable and the explanation was good so I'm happy in that way, but as you say 110,000 miles does not seem much for an auto box although many seem to experience transmission judder at around that mileage.
 D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.

D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone

Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:

Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy 
 
Post #18435233rd Aug 2017 7:47 am
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Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

The transmission judder you describe is exactly as a failed or failing TC.
If you changed the oil a year ago, I'm reasonably sure it would have prevented it getting worse, although eventually a change of TC would be needed.
The symptoms sound only TC related a text this stage, so gearbox rebuilt is definitely overkill, but then again at least you'll be happy to rely on it for another 100k plus. Thumbs Up

My advise after you've had the work done would be to either drop the transmission oil at each service moving forward (about 4-6l oil) or make sure you have a flush every 40,000 or so. Change of oil is far cheaper than change of gearbox in the long run. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
 Bodsys Brake Bible

D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling


Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here 
 
Post #18435403rd Aug 2017 8:19 am
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D&G
 


Member Since: 29 Jun 2017
Location: Charente 16480
Posts: 3483

Ukraine 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Barolo BlackDiscovery 3

Cheers Bodsy, you pretty much confirmed what Broadfields have said about my TC and work needing to be done. Thumbs Up
 An honorable defeat is better than a dishonorable victory.” ― Millard Fillmore



2006 Disco 3
Gas Gas 300ec / Gas Gas tx249 / Bandit 1250
XR 650r / Pajero 2.8 Lifted and Safari Snorkel-gone. 
 
Post #18435473rd Aug 2017 8:34 am
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sean 471
 


Member Since: 26 Apr 2011
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2990

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 Pursuit LE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

I had the same symptoms and advice from martin Lowe at Barnsley. Changed and been fine since.
  
Post #18435613rd Aug 2017 8:56 am
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Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Sean, changed the TC or the gearbox as well?
 Bodsys Brake Bible

D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling


Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here 
 
Post #18435623rd Aug 2017 8:57 am
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Mark-w
 


Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124

England 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Gearbox rebuild may or may not be overkill, im guessing there's no way of knowing how bad things are till it's stripped, given I was quoted from £500 to around £1000 to do the torque converter against the rebuild in happy with the price in paying and as Bodsy says it means peace of mind for what will be the rest of the cars life, which was important to me.
 D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.

D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone

Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:

Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy 
 
Post #18435633rd Aug 2017 8:59 am
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discovery1953
 


Member Since: 07 Jan 2014
Location: Westbrook, Wilts.
Posts: 1162

England 2015 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Kaikoura StoneDiscovery 4

Mark-w wrote:
Transmission was flushed nearly 4 years ago when I got the car, I remember Geoff commenting at the time that the old oil was as good as he had seen, but I don't know if that was the original oil or not.
With regards to the box being u/s at 110,000 miles apparently the judderis caused by a pressure issue within the box causing the tc to glaze, something to do with the pressure the zf box runs at. Martin sounded extremely knowledgeable and the explanation was good so I'm happy in that way, but as you say 110,000 miles does not seem much for an auto box although many seem to experience transmission judder at around that mileage.



Mark,

How much have you been quoted for both the auto box and TC please, as mine is going in on the 14th for the same Big Cry Big Cry Big Cry Big Cry

Thanks
  
Post #18435813rd Aug 2017 9:44 am
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Mark-w
 


Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124

England 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Discovery1953
Pm sent as didn't think it right to put quoted price on here
 D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.

D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone

Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:

Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy 
 
Post #18435843rd Aug 2017 9:50 am
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sean 471
 


Member Since: 26 Apr 2011
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2990

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 Pursuit LE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Bodsy wrote:
Sean, changed the TC or the gearbox as well?


Changed the box and TC. 2.4k with 12 months warranty.
He recommended changing the box has the seals between the valves would have worn as well due to mileage and this was causing the revs to fluctuate.
  
Post #18436103rd Aug 2017 10:39 am
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D&G
 


Member Since: 29 Jun 2017
Location: Charente 16480
Posts: 3483

Ukraine 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Barolo BlackDiscovery 3

Sean
What was your milage Thumbs Up
 An honorable defeat is better than a dishonorable victory.” ― Millard Fillmore



2006 Disco 3
Gas Gas 300ec / Gas Gas tx249 / Bandit 1250
XR 650r / Pajero 2.8 Lifted and Safari Snorkel-gone. 
 
Post #18436153rd Aug 2017 10:50 am
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professorpool
 


Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: Woking
Posts: 3213

Wales 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3
Re: Transmission judder, my decision.

Mark-w wrote:
About a year ago after towing a long way I noticed a very slight judder in 3rd gear, research on here lead me to believing the torque converter was on its way out, however at the time it was very minimal,
Fast forward a year and over the last couple of months it's got considerably worse and I've been thinking about what to do, the car was checked over by my friends garage who have always done the work in the car including the last service (it had a full Land Rover dealer service history till then, but at 110,000 miles and 10 years old I decided dealer serving was a pointless expense) at that check the propshaft centre bearing was found worn so a new propshaft was fitted, this didn't stop the judder, but then again I wasn't expecting it too.
After towing again last Saturday I decided things were too bad and I needed to take action, I considered changing the car but as it's 2006 there's not all that much value left in it and any discovery 4's I could find seemed to be around £18,000+ and at that price had around 90,000 miles on them. The decision was simple it wasn't worth changing the car. It doesn't do many miles and it was too much money to change, I might as well stick with the car I know.
So the research started on here to see about changing the torque converter, I contacted one transmission specialist who was prepared to fit an exchange tc but I wasn't totally convinced, I then contacted Martin Lowe transmissions at Barnsley after reading good things about them on the forum, they said fitting a tc alone was a waste of money saying it would curr things short term but as the overall issue was wear in the box the judder would eventually return, they explained things very well and came across as very knowledgeable.
I had a word with my mechanic friend who looks after a few D3's and has one himself, he agreed and thought it not a good idea to fit a tc alone, saying it wouldn't be a job he'd be prepared to do unless a customer was totally insistent on it,
So know I'm booked in at Martin Lowe's for a full transmission rebuild including a new tc, from talking to them I believe they fit an exchange unit to save time, they described this as an uprated transmission, they want the car about a working week as apparently once complete they put some miles on it making sure it's 100%, the work then has a full guarantee.
The car should come back good as new, at least in the transmission department, seeing as the car has always had everything spent on it that it needed hopefully we should be good for a good few more years life from it,
Not a cheap job, but hopefully money well spent and certainly cheaper than changing the car,


My D3 is currently with:

http://reengineeredtransmissions.co.uk/

Who quoted me £1860 + VAT for a brand TC and a rebuild of my box (£895 of that total) and a change of all the seals for the transfer box. They came to me highly recommended. They handle around 150 gear boxes per month. They have a massive location and there are gear boxes piled up everywhere. They had a RRS in whilst I was there.

My car has 178k on the clock. Their words were "anyone getting more than 120k out of one of these boxes is living on borrowed time"

Interestingly, their view of the "flushes" was that they were a complete waste of time and money.

They estimate my "new" box will last about 50-70k. That should see my ownership of the car through to the end.

I am due to pick the car up next week and then drive it to Croatia on Friday night! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

EDIT:
The opinion of the projected life of these boxes and flushes is their opinion not mine. I don't have a strong opinion as I am not a gearbox engineer. Might as well be discussing flux capacitors for all I would know.

EDIT 2:
Completely forgot to say that the advice I received was virtually the same as that in red
 D3 07 SE - still going strong
D3 07 HSE - gone to car heaven
FL1 - gone to Romania
D3 05 HSE - gone to a divorce diet
D1 V8 manual - gone but not forgotten
RR Classic - gone to car heaven

Jeeps, Lexus, X-trails... Too many to name.. 


Last edited by professorpool on 3rd Aug 2017 11:15 am. Edited 2 times in total 
Post #18436173rd Aug 2017 10:53 am
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sean 471
 


Member Since: 26 Apr 2011
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2990

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 Pursuit LE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

D&G wrote:
Sean
What was your milage Thumbs Up

About 130k
Ebygum had it done at the same place.
  
Post #18436263rd Aug 2017 11:01 am
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