Member Since: 20 Jan 2017
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 13
D5 rear (2nd row) seats - design fault?
I know this has been mentioned by a few people before.
Unlike many on here, I was actually a big fan of this D5, I liked the looks (but not the sloping C pillar), the boot space was fine for my uses, and I loved the new interior. I could live with the one piece tailgate if I absolutely had to, as I also could with that ridiculous off set rear plate, but...........
Having just tried the 2nd row seats at a dealer (having read on these threads that the seat bases were low), I can confirm they will provide absolutely no under thigh support at all for any one over about 5'6", making long distances an uncomfortable place for back seat passengers. This has become a deal breaker for me, as we do several very long trips a year across Europe, and these are the worst rear seats I have tried in any premium car ever! Thinking I must be wrong, while at the dealer I tried all the other models in the showroom (DS, RRS, FFRR, etc,) and they were all so much better. Even the 'little' DS was way better than the apparently premium D5. I then compared it to the Insignia hire car I was using for the day, and that was better as well. What has LR done?
I think maybe they screwed up the panoramic roof and support placements, and as a consequence had to mount the 2nd row seats much lower than they normally would want to, after all, as I said, the other models LR sell do don't suffer from this design fault.
When I pointed these low seat bases out to the very nice and helpful sales guy, he agreed (he was about 5'10") and had no under thigh support at all when I got him to try it. He said that literally dozens of people have crawled all over their showroom D5, and absolutely nobody had ever mentioned this before I did! How is this possible? Do most potential customers of this class of car really not care what it is like to sit in the back?? I just don't get it.
In my opinion, most of the controversial issues on the car that get talked about on this site (overall body shape, sloping C pillar, small boot opening, one piece tailgate, long rear doors, etc.) were a deliberate design trade-off decision by the design team. I can only think that making the back seats the most uncomfortable for adults in the whole LR model range must have been something else, and a consequence of a design mess up with the roof or something.
Anyway I really wanted to love this car, but now I guess I need to re-look at the XC90 again. Oh dear.
Last edited by Swiss4x4 on 25th Feb 2017 6:21 am. Edited 1 time in total
24th Feb 2017 7:34 pm
artschool
Member Since: 21 Aug 2016
Location: chester
Posts: 230
i think the rear seats are low to enable the loadspace to be flat(ish) when the seats are down.
I guess everything is a compromise. I tried with my kids, 2 of whom tower over diminutive me. No question, the seat squab is quite low, but with the middle seats all the way back, there's more than enough room to extend your legs and not have your knees around your shoulders. It's not sit up and beg like the D4 - is a bit more recumbent.Java TDV6 HSE with Alpaca and a few other fancy bits
BMW C1 200 with too many options to list and the world's worst image
25th Feb 2017 2:07 am
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 07 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4156
Spookily I was looking over the D5 in the showroom whilst waiting for my RRS to come back from service... brilliant design everywhere else but the salesman actually pointed this out to me and warned me of the issue.
He said when he was first shown the car he spoke to LR about it and recognised that it would be a deal breaker for many.
He told me to try it and he was exactly right....fine if you were only putting little ones in but dreadful for adults...
On the plus side he did say for me to try the front headrests! Boy are they comfortable!
Well said...
Honest view based on practicality.....after looking & buying a car you have to sit in it.....
(One of Jaguars sales lines is "it's a nice place to sit")
Not considering your passengers is to me a bit (maybe a lot) selfish....passengers have to have first of all safety then comfort....the urge to have "seven seats" above other (basic) things is to me ridiculous.
Seven seats - yes
Comfort (legroom, support etc) compromised - no
Having to live with the one piece tailgate......well that is a given & non negotiable....LandRover marketing & design made a choice based on some criterion....maybe to appeal to other markets to gain a wider customer base...but silly & impractical when it's been a success on the preceding model & on the FFRR
What will tell are volume sales...
Fundamentally when testers compare with comparable vehicles & comment on factors like these actual that's where potential sales will be reduced....people read & abide by test reports & base thier decisions to buy on these factors.
Seat positions & tailgate designs can't be facelift out or altered as an aftermarket kit.
The design concept is the foundation that takes a vehicle from launch to end of production....in the D3/4's case a brilliant concept with few drawbacks & to me no compromises.
Function dictated form
In the D5's case form dictates function....lack of comfort is something that will be a fact....uncomfortable passengers defies logic unless their all 5ft 6" or less
I feel really sorry for those who have the need to buy one.....I don't feel sorry at all for those who placed orders with car unseen.
Selling a perfectly formed & perfectly good D3/4 & moving to D5 ownership is to me a retrograde step - especially a D5 with a too small engine....I can see these vehicles as being hard to sell on....real LemonsBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
Last edited by BLFarrar on 25th Feb 2017 10:32 am. Edited 1 time in total
25th Feb 2017 9:27 am
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 07 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4156
As a footnote....anyone over 6 ft is going to brain themselves on the corner of the tailgate.... really sharp corner that is not head friendly!
25th Feb 2017 10:23 am
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72785
That's so they can sell you a first aid kit for a few gazillions.
25th Feb 2017 10:34 am
xcentric
Member Since: 01 Apr 2015
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 1081
Odd to make a car with 7 seats - where you're clearly aiming for family and friends practicality - and then have all but 2 of the seats not really suitable for adults.....
Aftermarket could possibly provide alternative rear door/tailgate (but massively expensive) but the seat position is harder to properly resolve.
Skoda Kodiaq looking a good replacement. Or maybe it's a ploy as the new Defender will be ideal for our needs.....
25th Feb 2017 12:41 pm
fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1243
Isn't this down to rear headroom design slopping back and seats being incorporated for a gadget electric seats folding combination.As this has been a big issue on adverts press your phone appt to change seats remotely ? who gave this the go ahead no idea perhaps in a concept version yes but main streamfollowing on from D4 i just don't get it.
Like most manufactures each new version seems to tweak small body parts/engines etc of which if you are loosing the twin chassis surely this concept would of fitted on new chassis.
These cars i thought were tested by people ( perhaps owned D4 that use 7 seats alot and what you want out of it.
It seems now bosses now go with probable stats based on previous cars in range and how many they can sell, lost their way yes can it be rectified not short term and not in current discovery.
Landrover ask you to take survey about your needs did or have they listened ? not much quite a few have stated more faster screen probably using knob like most use improvement in quality of seats ? front yes rears not so.
How many wanted rear tailgate kept for it's uses did they ?NO so are they concerned or listening to these issues no because they know whats best and at what cost long term?
25th Feb 2017 1:24 pm
Swiss4x4
Member Since: 20 Jan 2017
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 13
I really think it's something to do with the panoramic glass roof. The overall thickness from the headlining to the glass is huge. As a consequence, LR needed to lower the seats from their normal (comfortable) position to allow for the headroom.
If only LR could offer a higher seat height if the car was ordered without the panoramic roof. I'd jump at that.
I am also interested from those that have ordered this car and plan to use it with adults in the back. Are you really not concerned about this? To me it is a big deal, can't imagine any one wanting to do a long trip in the back, yet isn't that the point of a car like this? Maybe I just have an unusual use case, though judging by the amount of (mainly UK registered) D4s, RRSs, and FFRRs I see on European motorways, I don't think I am alone in this.
25th Feb 2017 4:34 pm
petersw
Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135
I was going to "re join " the forum so that I appeared to be a fresh poster with new views but decided it would be childish.
Peter
25th Feb 2017 4:53 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72785
"Re join"? Did you flounce?
PS, ah, understood. Being a bit slow today.
25th Feb 2017 5:19 pm
sportcoupe
Member Since: 29 Jan 2017
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 53
In Peter's picture, you can clearly see the lack of under thigh support for second row passengers.
25th Feb 2017 7:30 pm
jimbg
Member Since: 19 Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 478
I presume the second row is not slid back in the photo to allow legroom for the 3rd row?
25th Feb 2017 7:36 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
Swiss4x4 wrote:
I really think it's something to do with the panoramic glass roof. The overall thickness from the headlining to the glass is huge. As a consequence, LR needed to lower the seats from their normal (comfortable) position to allow for the headroom.
If only LR could offer a higher seat height if the car was ordered without the panoramic roof. I'd jump at that.
I am also interested from those that have ordered this car and plan to use it with adults in the back. Are you really not concerned about this? To me it is a big deal, can't imagine any one wanting to do a long trip in the back, yet isn't that the point of a car like this? Maybe I just have an unusual use case, though judging by the amount of (mainly UK registered) D4s, RRSs, and FFRRs I see on European motorways, I don't think I am alone in this.
If I was concerned I wouldn't have ordered
I sat in the back and I'm not exactly small, yes they seem lower but I wouldn't say I was uncomfortable, 3rd row seating also fine for adults.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
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