Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: West kent
Posts: 8531
if you read my signature you should notice i,m a B.A.S performance tuning authorised dealer
just noticed that you have a 2011 D4 which would require the ecu to be opened
Last edited by geoff. on 5th Feb 2017 6:46 pm. Edited 1 time in total
5th Feb 2017 6:44 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8104
With a reputable remap you will not see any difference but you will certainly feel it with the extra torque you are mostly in a higher gear than normal for the same speed, this alone transforms the car even to none techie people who comment on how quite the engine is.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
5th Feb 2017 6:45 pm
challenger23
Member Since: 03 Mar 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 56
Where abouts are you based ?
5th Feb 2017 6:48 pm
Madrilleno
Member Since: 13 Oct 2014
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 1742
Robbie wrote:
On a more wider scale there have been quite a few failures of otherwise established designs from many different diesel manufacturers following the inclusion of a DPF in the design. Some have changed the oil specification in an effort to restore some of the oil properties when diluted by unburnt diesel.
Robbie, why would a DPF result in engine oil dilution? I'm not contradicting you, but I would like to understand why.There are two rules for success,
1. Never tell everything you know.
Member Since: 24 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2294
challenger23 wrote:
Where abouts are you based ?
If you were to read geoff's signature you would see that he covers your area, and that his location is West Kent D3 owned from new, P017 brake recall, BAS FBHIC, new FBH, LR013487 oil pump, new water pump. RRS front lower suspension arms. New suspension compressor/ relay. New Denso alternator. CuNifer rear brake pipes. New GKN rear propshaft. New HPFP belt & tensioner. New A/C Condenser.NO WARRANTY for many many years.
5th Feb 2017 7:49 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20731
Madrilleno wrote:
Robbie wrote:
On a more wider scale there have been quite a few failures of otherwise established designs from many different diesel manufacturers following the inclusion of a DPF in the design. Some have changed the oil specification in an effort to restore some of the oil properties when diluted by unburnt diesel.
Robbie, why would a DPF result in engine oil dilution? I'm not contradicting you, but I would like to understand why.
Quote:
Post-injection of fuel into the cylinders is intended to vaporize in the cylinder but not combust, exiting then through the exhaust valves and traveling downstream where the introduction of the unburned fuel to the catalyst creates an exothermic reaction incinerating the collected soot. Inevitably the heavier fractions of fuel will not vaporize during post-injection and in liquid form can adhere to the cylinder walls. Through the slapping motion of the pistons and oil rings, the unburned fuel from post-injection can make its way through the tight, hot quarters between the piston, rings and cylinder walls. The fuel accumulates in the crankcase and dilutes the oil, which is a major concern regarding engine wear and longevity.
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Just to add to Mike's response and the issue of diesel contamination of the oil during regeneration or the more significant contamination caused by aborted regen cycles. The PCM does take account of the regen cycles, completed or otherwise, and monitors the oil level.
If the regen cycle suggests abnormal contamination is likely and the oil level increases (this is why a dipstick isn't good enough) the PCM can trigger an oil service requirement on the IPC. Experience suggests that this algorithm is rather generous when it comes to the amount of diesel contamination it thinks is ok - you have to wonder if it was tuned by those looking for the largest service interval.
My final point is the oil itself. For DPF vehicles they sought oils with low Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus
and Sulphur (SAPS) to reduce the contamination captured by DPF thereby reducing the number of regen cycles as well as the fuel used. So they came up with C1 with 0.5% SAPS ash, which was well below the 1% maximum. Manufacturers thought this C1 stuff was brilliant as it would require even fewer DPF cycles and increase fuel efficiency and less diesel contamination should mean even longer service intervals.
Or so they thought.
The trouble was the properties of C1, with such low SAPS, removed some of the oil properties that were beneficial when otherwise diluted by diesel - especially the sulphur. Engines started to fail and some manufacturers abandoned C1 and a new oil was sought. This came to be known as C2 (now being superseded by C3); still low SAPS for the DPF but with a small increase to 0.8%. Quite a few C1 suppliers now add a warning regarding the risk of using it in engines that may not cope with it.
For the D4 JLR still allow either C1 or C2(C3) in Europe. Outside of Europe they only allow C2(C3) but with a reduced service interval. If you did a straw poll of all the mechanically minded owners and sponsors on this forum I wonder how many actually stick to the overly long oil service schedule on their own vehicles - I'd guess the number would vanishingly small.
So is this oil issue a factor in some of the engine failures - who knows and JLR are keeping silent. Can seemingly minor changes to oil properties on an otherwise established engine design cause unexpected havoc - you bet.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8104
My theory behind these crankshaft failures is not stress caused by high torque or inferior materials, I think the possibility of a cylinder firing before TDC is far more likely, this could be caused by a leaking injector or a blip in the injector system allowing an injector to fire early. If this was to happen it would put immense stress on the crank equivalent to having water in the cylinder which cannot compress ans something has to break. Very few if any seem to occur when the engine is cold, always on a hot engine when diesel will fire easily.
I have never experienced a crankshaft breaking in any engine, con.rods yes, it was very rare even in the early days of F1 racing but research proved that over 95% of engine or transmission failures that occurred in F1 occurred on overrun, that is, the point of changing from thrust to breaking, very rare at maximum power or revs.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
5th Feb 2017 11:11 pm
Madrilleno
Member Since: 13 Oct 2014
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 1742
Thanks Robbie too.There are two rules for success,
1. Never tell everything you know.
yes, none of the D3/D4s in ZA have a DPF, yet we seem to have a high incidence of crank failures compared to the UK--
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
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but you will certainly feel it 
with the extra torque you are mostly in a higher gear than normal for the same speed, this alone transforms the car even to none techie people who comment on how quite the engine is.
you would see that he covers your area, and that his location is West Kent 
