Member Since: 07 Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 34
Starting woes....injector?
Hi there,
here in Germany we're enjoying a very big freeze at the moment. -18 at night
The problem is my Disco doesn't enjoy it as much as the kids. Starting today was a nightmare. Had to give it five shots or so. Lots of white smoke and very lumpy engine. I had a leaky injector replaced at Christmas. Now I know starting issues are nearly always linked to glow plugs and mine are still the first set (MY 06, 100,000 miles done). They probably should be replaced. I'm just wondering if the dealers did the job with the new injector right, since starting was definitely better before the replacement. The dealer claims there is no prob with the injector. Does a new injector have to be "trained in" or adjusted or is it just plug and play? Could they have messed up the job? Just don't want to spend a bazillion euros on glow plugs only to find out it was the injector.....
Any thoughts? And Happy New Year!!!
6th Jan 2017 5:17 pm
gilesharrison
Member Since: 23 Oct 2016
Location: Penrith
Posts: 143
My understanding is that injectors are plug and play. All the compensation is automatic.
I have good glow plugs (all working) but bad injectors. The car will always start first time but with lots of smoke and a lumpy idle initially.
6th Jan 2017 8:21 pm
Landy_andy
Member Since: 05 May 2013
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 676
Injectors are just fit and forget. If it's starting bad in this weather I'd be looking at glow plugs or get the pre heater working.
Andy
6th Jan 2017 10:36 pm
Dave Shirley
Member Since: 22 Sep 2011
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 448
Minus 18 and hard to start???? glow plugs for sure, be brave, warm the engine up to temperature and get them out. If you break them it does not matter if they are already unserviceable. Plenty of firms around now that will get the broken bits out should you snap them off without removing the cyl head, or as someone has already said get your pre-heater working. Good luck and remember it won't cure itself...........
6th Jan 2017 11:10 pm
The Wild Rover
Member Since: 07 Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 34
Cheers lads!
Glow plugs it is so. Keep your fingers crossed they'll come out in one piece....
7th Jan 2017 9:32 am
Dave Shirley
Member Since: 22 Sep 2011
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 448
Let us know how you get on please,fixes are always of interest.......
7th Jan 2017 10:16 am
The Wild Rover
Member Since: 07 Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 34
Will do.
7th Jan 2017 11:38 am
Gazellio
Member Since: 09 Jan 2011
Location: Chilterns
Posts: 4130
I have same issue be interested in results
7th Jan 2017 12:01 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
as mentioned in another thread, if it's -18°C you really need a remote park heater!
Best to purchase one of these before messing with glowplugs
7th Jan 2017 12:30 pm
The Wild Rover
Member Since: 07 Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 34
As promised here is the outcome of the story. Not handy enough to fix the problem myself so I found a good indy (hard enough here in Germany) Diagnosed three broken plugs. They went at it carefully. Replaced all 6 plugs, snapped none! Hooray!! Charged me 550 euro and the Disco started first up and ran sweet as a nut this morning at -13. Result! Cheers again for advice.
23rd Jan 2017 8:07 am
firthy77
Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
Location: Stockport
Posts: 94
Great result and thank for the update
23rd Jan 2017 8:11 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Pete K wrote:
as mentioned in another thread, if it's -18°C you really need a remote park heater!
Best to purchase one of these before messing with glowplugs
Remote park heater is a convenience function and no substitute for working glow plugs, which are used for more than just starting. Setting aside the practicality of needing advanced notice of a journey, the power required from the battery and the reliability of older and unserviced FBH, starting with warm coolant but cold cylinders does carry risk. The atomised fuel charge that recondenses on the cylinder walls is ineffective, so the fuelling is increased to the max in an effort to compensate. Diesel washing down the cylinders ends up in the oil system and reducing its lubricity and viscosity.
Glow plugs are a key part of your engine and if they were easier to change we would all be doing so without a thought. But I wince every time someone suggests using the FBH as a 20 minute substitute for a correctly working engine without highlighting the damage being done.
The Wild Rover wrote:
As promised here is the outcome of the story. Not handy enough to fix the problem myself so I found a good indy (hard enough here in Germany) Diagnosed three broken plugs. They went at it carefully. Replaced all 6 plugs, snapped none! Hooray!! Charged me 550 euro and the Disco started first up and ran sweet as a nut this morning at -13. Result! Cheers again for advice.
Well done - the best outcome.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 09 Jan 2011
Location: Chilterns
Posts: 4130
^ Thanks Robbie it had occurred to me that Diesel was probably getting into the Oil during a poor starting period. Now things are sorted its time for an Oil change as its soon due anyway.
23rd Jan 2017 9:23 am
philm
Member Since: 02 Oct 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 732
Robbie wrote:
Pete K wrote:
as mentioned in another thread, if it's -18°C you really need a remote park heater!
Best to purchase one of these before messing with glowplugs
Remote park heater is a convenience function and no substitute for working glow plugs, which are used for more than just starting. Setting aside the practicality of needing advanced notice of a journey, the power required from the battery and the reliability of older and unserviced FBH, starting with warm coolant but cold cylinders does carry risk. The atomised fuel charge that recondenses on the cylinder walls is ineffective, so the fuelling is increased to the max in an effort to compensate. Diesel washing down the cylinders ends up in the oil system and reducing its lubricity and viscosity.
Glow plugs are a key part of your engine and if they were easier to change we would all be doing so without a thought. But I wince every time someone suggests using the FBH as a 20 minute substitute for a correctly working engine without highlighting the damage being done.
The Wild Rover wrote:
As promised here is the outcome of the story. Not handy enough to fix the problem myself so I found a good indy (hard enough here in Germany) Diagnosed three broken plugs. They went at it carefully. Replaced all 6 plugs, snapped none! Hooray!! Charged me 550 euro and the Disco started first up and ran sweet as a nut this morning at -13. Result! Cheers again for advice.
Well done - the best outcome.
If the coolant warms the engine, wouldn't the cylinders be at the same temp.L633 Defender
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23rd Jan 2017 9:41 am
J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
No because the coolant can't heat the cylinder in any way like the glow plugs will.
People think the FBH controllers are some magic tool to save changing glow plugs, they're not. You might get away with it in the UK with the milder temperatures but I tried to use mine at -25 in Austria and it was a total failure.
They heat the coolant which reduces the glow plug timing anyway so whatever plugs you do have working become inoperable.
I used my D3 in cold climates so I paid £2k+ to have all 6 changed and never had problems starting again.
As the OP has shown, there is only one proper way to solve the issue.
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