Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Getting it now.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
2nd Oct 2016 11:19 am
sacimiddx
Member Since: 09 Mar 2007
Location: hants
Posts: 2144
Drivability will be the key
I had a jag f pace for a week (2 litre) bloody thing was way too busy on revs and gear changing
No depth to the experience whatsoeverIllegitimi Non Carborundum
Last edited by sacimiddx on 2nd Oct 2016 11:28 am. Edited 2 times in total
2nd Oct 2016 11:26 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Got it and very interesting it is too!
I'll get it on the thread shortly and write a few comments as well....2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
Always going to get better torque delivery out of a 6-pot because the mean piston speed remains lower. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
2nd Oct 2016 11:37 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Click image to enlarge
Torque is measured on a dyno, bhp is calculated by effectively simply multiplying torque at any given engine speed, by the relevant number of rpm (I wish someone had told me that simple truth many years before I found out!).
Notice how much earlier the torque curve rises on the V6:
1000 rpm on the SD4 provides 250NM, while the same speed on the V6 provides 300NM
1500 rpm on the SD4 provides 500NM, while the same speed on the V6 provides 600NM
That's where you notice the low down pull of the V6.
The SD4 never rises above 500NM and goes into decline from 2500rpm
The V6 holds on to 600NM until 2300 rpm and doesn't dip beneath 500NM until 3500rpm. Notice the "bulge" that causes in the BHP at the same engine speeds
That's where you notice the instant and broad range of overtaking urge of the V6
Maximum bhp on the V6 comes in at 3750rpm, while it has to have a further 250rpm for the TD4 to achieve a figure that's around 15 BHP lower.
This is where you have to rev it harder to achieve BHP figures that come close to offsetting the lack of bottom end torque.
On the plus side, the TD4's torque curve is nice and flat in the mid range, which gives for a nice progressive increase in BHP as the revs rise, although it can be a bit dull as that kind of curve can make it feel a bit like an electric motor!
Update: I'm now guessing that the original questions that I was hoping to answer here were purely rhetorical then?!2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
Last edited by Red Merle on 3rd Oct 2016 5:01 am. Edited 3 times in total
2nd Oct 2016 11:50 am
muddywheels4wd
Member Since: 16 Dec 2010
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Posts: 1681
I went from MY13 RRS SDV6 to MY16 DS ingenium and am well aware of the difference between the engine's but would I pay more for the smoother engine - no I wouldn't which is why I'm driving a cheaper Mitsubishi phev with petrol engine now - I didn't like the ingenium and the planned 3 cylinder MHEV DS sounds horrendous
I would be interested in the petrol phev currently being developed though in D5 or RRS provided the QC improves dramaticallyWanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW
Still hoping for a S2 one day!
2nd Oct 2016 11:53 am
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
To me £1500 in the grand scheme of things isn't a lot to pay for an engine that to me is better.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
2nd Oct 2016 12:06 pm
muddywheels4wd
Member Since: 16 Dec 2010
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Posts: 1681
£1500 doesn't sound a lot if you put it that way but it's more when you consider how much you lost on the DS you weren't happy with then the D4 then changing for the D5
You must be disappointed J77 - I know I am Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW
Torque is measured on a dyno, bhp is calculated by effectively simply multiplying torque at any given engine speed, by the relevant number of rpm (I wish someone had told me that simple truth many years before I found out!).
Notice how much earlier the torque curve rises on the V6:
1000 rpm on the SD4 provides 250NM, while the same speed on the V6 provides 300NM
1500 rpm on the SD4 provides 500NM, while the same speed on the V6 provides 600NM
That's where you notice the low down pull of the V6.
The SD4 never rises above 500NM and goes into decline from 2500rpm
The V6 holds on to 600NM until 2300 rpm and doesn't dip beneath 500NM until 3500rpm. Notice the "bulge" that causes in the BHP at the same engine speeds
That's where you notice the instant and broad range of overtaking urge of the V6
Maximum bhp on the V6 comes in at 3750rpm, while it has to have a further 250rpm for the TD4 to achieve a figure that's around 15 BHP lower.
This is where you have to rev it harder to achieve BHP figures that come close to offsetting the lack of bottom end torque.
On the plus side, the TD4's torque curve is nice and flat in the mid range, which gives for a nice progressive increase in BHP as the revs rise, although it can be a bit dull as that kind of curve can make it feel a bit like an electric motor!
Rough plot of the two together:
Click image to enlarge
Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
2nd Oct 2016 12:46 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
That's a great help! Thanks 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
2nd Oct 2016 12:54 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
I'm not disappointed with the D5 as such because really we new what we were getting, it's based on the RR platform so should be a really nice drive, price is a bit more than I really would like but not completely out of reach. Rough figures at the moment it's looking like £5 more for a car that has a lot more kit than my current SE. Been doing business with the same salesman for 10 years and put a lot of business his way, family etc so a good deal isn't hard to get.
My current D4 would be going next year either way, I don't like to keep them too long, I was looking at a FFRR but that would have to be 2-3 year old where as with the D5 I get best of both in a brand new car. I've looked at other cars but keep coming back to LR, pretty much had it down to your current ride, but have to pass the LR dealer to get there. The Disco has always been the car for me, my Fl2s were great but didn't enjoy them the same but suited me more as I spend most of the in the car myself.
I think going from D4 to DS was a bit optimistic in the fact I was hoping for a Disco in a smaller package, was never going to be. I had a few doubts but just ignored them, but this time I know to listen and trust my gut feeling. I don't think going from D4 to D5 will be as bad, I'm perhaps in the minority, as I like the current styling that's not to say I don't like the classic LR image, that will always be iconic design.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
2nd Oct 2016 1:00 pm
muddywheels4wd
Member Since: 16 Dec 2010
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Posts: 1681
Hope it's everything you hoped for in the flesh
I'm not disappointed in the look of D5 either but worried about build quality and penny pinching coupled with price increases
If I still had the caravan I'd be tempted to try the D5 but for now I'll wait and see how you Guinea pigs get on Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW
Still hoping for a S2 one day!
2nd Oct 2016 1:08 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
I'm sure it will be good.
Will find out on the 16th November.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
2nd Oct 2016 1:30 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
The 2.0 matches the V6 for acceleration 50 -75 mph ...both in 6.0secs21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
2nd Oct 2016 2:22 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Provided that the ECU is set to bounce the Sd4 off the rev limiter, with the peak BHP so closely matched with the V6 (albeit, higher up the rev range) and their being a weight saving, there's no reason why it shouldn't match it. It'll sound painful, but it ought to do it!2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
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Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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