Red Merle wrote:

In many ways the Toyota has already taken over a great deal of Land Rover's traditional market;

Internationally LR were never a competitor to them in terms of numbers ...nationally though Toyotas 4x4 sales historically are nowhere near LR's

Red Merle wrote:

Take Australia, for instance. In the 1960's Land Rover had around a 90% share of the off road market, a lead lost to Toyota in 1983 and never regained. Land Rover are doing well there now, but in a very different market and they are never likely to challenge the likes of Toyota for the traditional market again.

He means tolerating the inconvenience of having to send it back or suffering a breakdown. No warranty will stop that being a PITA.

Red Merle wrote:

Not very profitable at all, there's no argument there.

What sales of such vehicles do is maintain the credibility of the brand and help drive the sales of the profitable stuff. I'll admit it, a huge part of me buying a LR in the first place was that I could feel really comfortable with the idea that it was the "real deal" and properly distanced from the hair dresser's and city boys cars from the likes of, say, BMW.

I disagree on two counts - firstly, there's no shortage of people who would benefit from the more practical balance of the D3/4 (and indeed the market for a more basic utility vehicle is not small either, though in that instance it is at least slightly more onerous for LR to devote resources too). It doesn't have to be a full-on off-road vehicle to draw wider appeal from the "traditional" market. In the equestrian world, for instance, the Disco is easily the most popular vehicle, and there will be D4s by the dozen at any event - neither are these old vehicles or people without money to spend (not to mention the fact that many such events receive sponsorship from LR). The rural community offers something of a captive market for a practical but refined and upmarket vehicle that LR would not have to work hard to accomodate with minimal compromise.

In addition though, there is no reason to assume that a more practical vehicle would lose sales at the Chelsea tractor end. The D5 could easily have retained some more of it's practicality and ruggedness and it would not have significantly impaired it's luxury appeal - Gerry McGovern's comments on roof racks rather demonstrate his narrow view to the contrary, which I can only see as a kind of paranoia. The Disco has been strong a FFRR alternative even since the D3 without sacrificing on practicality and there are enough people that want something different - the FFRR and RRS are still there for those that don't like it. Whatever the arguments over the strength of the traditionalist market, a better balance was/is possible without significant compromise and that is what counts.

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Fitzy73 wrote:

I am not doing that for the ugly Gerry "Chris Bangle" McGovern D5.

Ouch, comparing Gerry McGovern to Chris Bangle!

Gerry McGovern would struggle to beat by dog in a car design contest, granted, but Chris Bangle is to car design what Dr Crippen is to loving husbands