Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1596
I know people do this oil change and report positive changes, but my understanding is that is sealed for life according to LR, so wonder why you state ‘well beyond recommended’. Interested in where this recommendation comes from as mine is a similar age, but under half the miles.
ThanksGary
-------------------------------------------
Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY
7th Apr 2024 11:34 am
Ammdaz
Member Since: 17 Oct 2023
Location: Kent
Posts: 61
I've done so much reading on this.
From what I've found ZF themselves recommend an oil change around 75k and it seems from a lot of independent service companies that work on them say the same. Someone might correct me but Land Rover stated sealed for life so it wasn't there problem later on.
7th Apr 2024 12:19 pm
Gary_P
Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1596
Understood. Thanks for sharing this. I’ve done less than 60k miles and the car is coming up to 9 years old. Gear changes still very smooth (that’s done it !).Gary
-------------------------------------------
Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY
7th Apr 2024 3:10 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4938
ZF never built any transmission with the recommendation "filled for life"
I spoke to ZF over 25 years ago and they told me then that this was a decision taken by car manufacturers themselves, and against the recommendations of ZF. I remember feeling very angry at the time about this seemingly deceptive advice from the car makers. Since then I completely ignore their service interval recommendations and form my own based on common sense and a lifetime of experience.
If I remember correctly the recommendation from ZF at that time was 60k to 80k miles for an oil and filter change, and every 40k miles thereafter for a long transmission lifespan. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
7th Apr 2024 3:37 pm
faulksy
Member Since: 24 Dec 2023
Location: powys
Posts: 218
Member Since: 17 Oct 2023
Location: Kent
Posts: 61
Just done the first oil change, really easy guide 👍 oil wasn't as bad as I expected, just waiting for cool down before final check. Will do a second drop in a couple of weeks.
8th May 2024 2:46 pm
HairyFool
Member Since: 04 Jan 2023
Location: Essex
Posts: 608
Just checked on the Opie oils site
Motul ATF £12.95/l
ZF Lifeguard 8 £58/l
A visitor from the dark side, my other vehicle is an MG5 EV
8th May 2024 5:13 pm
faulksy
Member Since: 24 Dec 2023
Location: powys
Posts: 218
Can you use atf then ?
Is there a certain spec
Got a quote yesterday from a local ish indy.
500 quid
£90 per hour plus vathad a d1 ,d2 a land mark d4 for 3 days now have awsome d4 in orkney grey hse sdv6 my12
8th May 2024 8:27 pm
HairyFool
Member Since: 04 Jan 2023
Location: Essex
Posts: 608
"ZF automatic transmissions are generally filled with lifetime oil. However, due to the many fac-
tors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil
change after 150,000 km for its transmissions."
So ostensibly LR are not entirely wrong in saying the 8HP is sealed for life, the problem is ZF then put a limit in what "life" means
Also, not included in Robbies guide, this needs to be done 1st.
"Small container (up to 20 l) must be shaken vigorously for at least 15 s before removing the oil."
The approved oil has been specifically formulated for the individual gearbox design. So although Opie oils list an alternative ZF themselves say no. I suspect Opie are basing this on meeting specifications so if the alternative is no good then what is the point in giving specs in the 1st place.A visitor from the dark side, my other vehicle is an MG5 EV
8th May 2024 9:15 pm
faulksy
Member Since: 24 Dec 2023
Location: powys
Posts: 218
no mention on any of these 15 pages of anyone changing the filter. am i missing something ?
thankshad a d1 ,d2 a land mark d4 for 3 days now have awsome d4 in orkney grey hse sdv6 my12
4th Jun 2024 1:25 am
stuarth44
Member Since: 20 Jul 2019
Location: buderim
Posts: 11
Re: Robbie's Guide To ZF8 Auto Transmission Oil Change
Click image to enlarge
Robbie wrote:
Click image to enlarge
1. As with all my guides this is my attempt to simplify and encourage what should be a routine maintenance task that is well within the gift of the average DIY-capable D4 owner. There may be better techniques out there so please feel free to add your own top-tips to the guide. Warning: Do not use the same oil change techniques as used on the ZF6 - the ZF8 is different.
2. Despite the extra gears available the ZF8 gearbox has far fewer components than the original ZF6 gearbox that was fitted to the D3 and early D4s. Like the ZF6 the 8-speed has proven to be an incredibly strong and reliable unit in a whole host of different premium vehicles. Unfortunately JLR has seen fit to follow the mistakes of the ZF6 by recommending that it does not need servicing before 150,000 miles or 10 years. In all regards the advice from JLR is wrong and should you follow this advice and your gearbox dies early then JLR will not lift a finger to help you. Automatic gearbox repair work is expensive and poorly gearboxes make for a miserable and uneconomic driving experience. As such it is unwise to ignore the advice from ZF and blindly follow the JLR service schedule. The fluid in an auto is used for lubrication, warming, cooling, hydraulic actuation, turbine flow, as well as a bath for the friction material and the electronics. The fluid has a hard life but with regular servicing this gearbox is capable of stella miles.
3. This guide uses my own MY13 D4 that has covered over 36,000 miles in the 3 years of my ownership. I don't tow that often and I only go off-road when I have to and not for fun. As such the gearbox and the transmission fluid have had a relatively easy life. My own intended schedule is to complete a single oil change at 36k and further changes every year after that. As the torque converter and other components retain around half the installed oil I will effectively half the age of the oil now and achieve a slow-time double flush by 50k with the minimum of expense or wasted fluid. Enough waffle - to the tools!
Click image to enlarge
4. For this job you need a set of axle stands or another method to give you a safety space, safety specs, an oil catch-pan, 10mm socket, 8mm hex, 10mm hex, ratchet, extension bar, ZF8 Lifeguard ATF (5L), plenty of shop towels and a torque wrench for the low torque values required. As ever, an impact wrench and additional lighting makes things easier. As temperature measurement is key you will also need either a suitable diagnostic tool, IR thermometer or similar. It is a good habit to measure what is removed so if you intend to do this by weight then remember to weigh your container beforehand.
5. The gearbox should be warmed-up before servicing. The vehicle must be parked in a safe location, on level ground, at off-road height or higher, safety stands positioned under the chassis rails, with the EPB applied and the gearbox in park.
6. First remove the rearmost undershield. This is secured by 5 flanged bolts with 10mm hex heads. These rust very quickly and thread into those flimsy clips, so penetrating fluid and an impact can be helpful. It does not weigh much but be careful of the hot exhaust pipes behind. With the shield removed you will see the black plastic sump of the gearbox:
Click image to enlarge
7. Towards the rear corner of the sump you will see the black plastic drain port with a 10mm socket hex fitting. Above and to the rear of it is the metal 8mm socket hex fill port plug, partly hidden by the exhaust cross-over pipe:
Click image to enlarge
8. The workshop manual calls for a special tool to remove this plug due to the lack of access. I have no idea as to why as there is loads of room around the port on mine. With the engine off and the catch-pan & rags to the ready, use a 8mm hex key on your ratchet to slowly remove the top fill port first:
Click image to enlarge
9. As the gearbox oil pump is unpowerd and the oil warm the oil level will be considerably higher than the fill port, so use the plug to regulate the flow to avoid it splashing straight off the exhaust and going everywhere. Once the flow stops use the 10mm hex key and ratchet to remove the lower drain plug. As this port is close to the exhaust you may need an extension/wobble bar or a longer hex key to avoid straining the plastic fitting. Again, use the plug to regulate the flow into your catchpan:
Click image to enlarge
10. Once the oil flow has stopped, inspect, clean and replace the drain plug. The threads on this plug will strip in a heartbeat so use a torque wrench with a low range to achieve between 8 to 10 Nm; the workshop manual recommends new plugs, but I reused the existing ones. You are now free to fill the gearbox with replacement ZF8 ATF utilising whatever kit you have to hand (bespoke oil pump, funnel and pipe, oil syringe etc).
11. First fill the gearbox until fluid starts to drip from the fill port before retuning to the driver's seat. The ZF8 needs to draw fluid to all the key components for the oil level check to be valid. Failure to follow the correct steps may damage your gearbox. The gears, clutches, torque converter and oil cooler system must all be allowed to fill:
Click image to enlarge
12. The ZF8 gearbox uses a small chain-driven vane cell pump, mounted to the rear of the TC to circulate the oil. It is a very efficient unit and places very little load on the gearbox; it too must be allowed sufficient opportunity to prime correctly:
Click image to enlarge
- Start the engine (to draw oil from the sump and pump it around the gearbox).
- With the engine still running slowly add more oil through the fill port until it starts to drip again.
Return to the driver's seat and with a firm foot on the brake and checking the EPB is still applied:
- Select Reverse for 5 seconds.
- Select Drive for 5 seconds.
- With the flappy paddle select 2nd Gear for 5 seconds.
- Select Neutral.
To fully fill the torque converter the vane cell pump must run at a higher rpm:
- Throttle to 2,000 rpm for at least 30 seconds.
- Select Park.
- Allow engine to idle normally
13. All the components of the gearbox will now be fully primed with transmission fluid, with the exception of the oil heat-exchanger system. This system is thermostatically controlled. For the oil to prime and circulate correctly the thermostat must be fully open. Using either a thermometer on the sump or a suitable diagnostic tool, monitor the gearbox oil temp until it exceeds 69 deg C. This can take a while, so you can get a brew. Temp shown on IID, bottom right value indicating 68 deg C:
Click image to enlarge
14. Having hit the magic temp I consider it good practice to repeat the gearbox selections above, but it is not called for in the workshop manual.
- Replace the fill port finger tight for now.
- Turn off engine.
15. Having primed all parts of the system correctly the final level check requires the gearbox to cool-down to below 30 deg C. Even on a cold afternoon I managed to eat my evening meal, do some other jobs and drink my first beer before it was cool enough for the level check. Having achieved below 30 deg C:
- Start engine again.
- Remove fill port plug.
- Slowly fill with ATF until a fine thread of fluid leaks from the port.
- Replace plug and torque to 35 Nm.
- Wipe area clean and inspect for leaks.
- Double check that the temperature has not exceeded 50 deg C during the filling (if it has then allow to cool and repeat the fill check).
- Turn off engine.
- Replace undershield and 5 x 10mm bolts.
- Remove catchpan, tools and the safety stands.
- Clean any spills.
- Measure or weigh the amount removed and compare with what you put in:
Click image to enlarge
16. The above gave me a fluid weight of 3.4kg which equates to around 3.9 litres. I used about 4.2 litres, albeit a small amount of this would have leaked out during the level checks. The fluid drained from my box was still green coloured and smelt normal. You do not want your oil to go anything near black as that means damage is being done. If you do have a diagnostic tool now is a good time to reset the gearbox adaptations.
17. Job done with over 4.5 litres ready for next year. I used Lifeguard 8 ATF which cost me about £50 total from the bay last year. It is a shocking price if bought direct from Land Rover.
Click image to enlarge
18. Hope this helps and remember for a healthy gearbox, change early, change often.
[With thanks to DG & geoff.]
merci
I now have the d4 SDV6 with 135k km
I do not have records, bought it at 125k changed eng lube oil n filter then and not at 135
abt to do the Auto trans oil, but using penrite at 52 Au dollars , most people use this oil as the other stuff is 300
irigged a 5l can soldered a 1/4 bsp nipple in, and fitted a 1/4 bsp valve n 10mm clear hose
I have a 2mpost hoist, but lost the use of my lefy hand so things are not easy
BTW is you do this, punch a hole in the can or you'll never get swarf out if you drill it
I used to work for CUMMINS ENG.Co as a field service and eng rebuild fitter, alas I will have to get the cam belt done by a workshop
I intend to drive to Perth next month
Click image to enlarge
, over 4000km
I worry about this car, even though it is the bestest car I have ever driven even better than my merc 500 se
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum