Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
DG wrote:
It's fairly clear that LR expected people to know that by definition it is a removable towbar and should be removed after occasional towing …
All VOSA are requiring LR to do in essence is a communication exercise on the basis of the type of towing you do they are not requesting nor suggesting that it is inherently defective and not to be used.
Yeah right. It took a few years before the 'occasional towing' clarification came out and this is way more than a communication exercise. As a result of the VOSA interjection some seriously out of warranty vehicles are having chassis members cut away and new ones mig-welded back on. You do not undertake such drastic and expensive action without it being needed.
I think this campaign is commendable and a good result for owners - hurrah!
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 10 Dec 2014
Location: hexham
Posts: 87
MOT standard for towbars
towbars with a quick release mechanism will be checked for excessive play between the detachable tow ball and its receiver socket. Free play in the tapered swan neck fitting of up to 3mm movement measured at the ball end is acceptable.
3rd Jan 2015 6:55 pm
drout
Member Since: 10 Dec 2014
Location: hexham
Posts: 87
I was the VOSA area manager in Manchester, they do not order these actions lightly
3rd Jan 2015 6:57 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
Robbie wrote:
hurrah!
That won't be the last ...will it ?
Robbie wrote:
You do not undertake such drastic and expensive action without it being needed.
This is not a recall though ...so by definition not considered a safety issue by DVSA (VOSA) 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
3rd Jan 2015 7:01 pm
Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
DG wrote:
Wolfpack wrote:
LR never told me to remove it during the handover. Maybe that's too much to expect?
It's fairly clear that LR expected people to know that by definition it is a removable towbar and should be removed after occasional towing ...now they are having to tell you that it's a removable towbar must be removed after occasional towing
As for liability that some have mentioned ....they will carry out the check and if it passes then it is up to you to make sure that you use it correctly on every occasion from then on. So you would have to prove that the bar was defective.
If it fails then they will replace whatever needs to be replaced.
We need to remember that this bar is type approved ...so has been through all the testing that any other bar goes through and some independent body has said that it has passed the requirement. All VOSA are requiring LR to do in essence is a communication exercise on the basis of the type of towing you do they are not requesting nor suggesting that it is inherently defective and not to be used.
Yes but I am struggling with the notion that something needs to be removed... to stop it becoming unsafe. I can understand the lock may sieze if left out in all weathers...I can imagine a tow ball in continual use may develop wear and excessive movement. But i dont understand why a type approved removable tow bar HAS to removed to protect it? What else needs to be removed from LR when not in use... to protect it from the big bad world?
3rd Jan 2015 7:07 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
DG wrote:
This is not a recall though ...so by definition not considered a safety issue by DVSA (VOSA)
I don't think there will be a single chap at DVSA who thinks a detached towed load is not a safety issue.
I also think they made the wrong choice in not issuing a recall. On one side they will have balanced the % of vehicles that actually tow, the % of these that use a removable bar and the final % of these that will have experienced sufficient wear to be at risk. But without issuing a recall a number of vehicle owners that do not tow or have any intention of towing may not trouble themselves with the inspection yet their vehicle may be already out of limits. The next owner may again choose to tow and be unaware of the latent failure.
Recalls have to go to more effort to find the vehicles. Many 10 year old vehicles will have long since fallen out of the main dealer network and JLR will have no idea how to inform the owners. That said my own main dealer (a forum sponsor) has made no attempt to contact me regarding the issue. If it was not for the forum how would I know?Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: Bolton
Posts: 673
And following on from Robbies point what about nth owners like me who have no history of what my 55 plate car may have towed and as an engineer just didnt like the integrity of the removeable tow solution and have spent my own time and money fitting a witter fixed towbar.
Land Rover should reimburse me the cost if the tow bar and the hourly rate it cost me to fit.
The design is not fit for the supposed intended purpose.
Last edited by Numpty on 3rd Jan 2015 7:47 pm. Edited 1 time in total
3rd Jan 2015 7:47 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
Wouldn't have been the first time they called for an LR recall so why not now?
The warranty book value that JLR set aside for potential liabilities can easily take the weight of the most serious cost ...so the question is why didn't VOSA go for a recall ??
Maybe we should blame VOSA ? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
3rd Jan 2015 7:47 pm
derryfrombury
Member Since: 01 Sep 2014
Location: Bury St Edmunds
Posts: 212
Detachable Towbar
Robbie
I agree 100%, unless LR do a recall it's going to be almost impossible to trace all the vehicles out there. I suppose one way would be via the DVLA database. I really can't understand LR dragging their heels on this one. Can you imagine (heaven forbid) that someone has the misfortune to loose their towed load and its proven that the ball/hitch was at fault, particularly with LR knowing there is a potential fault. The damage to the Brand would be immeasurable.
Many years ago I worked for a soft drinks company who carried out a product recall, the cost of which ran into £m's, a few weeks after the recall, I had the good fortune to meet the then CEO and ask him, did he not think the company had overreacted to the situation as there where only a few minor incidents and it was proven beyond any doubt there was no risk whatsoever to the public, his answers was a quite clear and emphatic no, no matter what the cost, the damage to the Brand had they not issued the recall would pale into significance. Surely a lesson to LR, what on earth are their legal advisors doing. I for one would have no idea about the potential issue had I not been a forum member, I know of another 4 D3 owners (3 whom, like me tow a caravan) who live within a 10 mile radius of me and I would bet a small fortune that none of them are aware of the potential issues. As I said before, what on earth are the legal advisors doing.
Edit
Just contacted my nearest LR dealer (Marshalls Cambridge). Spoke to a very helpful gentleman (Frazer) in the service dep't who as soon as I mentioned "Service Action Q393" he knew exactly what I was talking about, he checked their database to see if my vehicle was subject to the above SA, and then booked my vehicle in got next Thursday 15th Jan. I'll report back after my visit.Joined Aug 2014. Disco 3 SE 54plate, Buckingham Blue, Cream leather.
Defender 90 200Tdi (weekend toy)
TinTent - Coachman Pastiche 535/4
Supercharged Autobiography Grille
Tera-Firma black silicone intercooler/turbo hoses fitted Sep2014
Forum stickers, silver on rear, Orange in place of RFL disc
Last edited by derryfrombury on 7th Jan 2015 11:41 am. Edited 1 time in total
3rd Jan 2015 10:16 pm
galwaygreen
Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: plymouth
Posts: 6525
to repeat what I said earlier....what are the insurance world thinking about this..if they know
3rd Jan 2015 10:29 pm
mcsimmo
Member Since: 08 Aug 2011
Location: North of the south
Posts: 1795
Having read this thread, I rung my local LR dealers. Their service department had never heard of this action, and to put me on hold for some time until they had chance to check out what it entailed.
I find it odd that a main dealers service department had no knowledge of the action, yet some forum members have been contacted by LR asking them to take their vehicles in for a check.
Regarding members concerns about the safety of the tow bars, I guess if the dealer gives the tow ball a clean bill of health and something then goes wrong, it puts the onus back on the dealer.
Anyway, I'm booked in for a check, so I'll see what happens.Man with no D3 anymore, but cant leave the forum....how sad.
4th Jan 2015 3:09 pm
derryfrombury
Member Since: 01 Sep 2014
Location: Bury St Edmunds
Posts: 212
Detachable towbar
MCSIMMO
Are you saying your dealer, after putting you on hold, confirmed they are now aware of the bulletin?Joined Aug 2014. Disco 3 SE 54plate, Buckingham Blue, Cream leather.
Defender 90 200Tdi (weekend toy)
TinTent - Coachman Pastiche 535/4
Supercharged Autobiography Grille
Tera-Firma black silicone intercooler/turbo hoses fitted Sep2014
Forum stickers, silver on rear, Orange in place of RFL disc
4th Jan 2015 5:45 pm
MGCarr
Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 703
DaveS wrote:
I currently have the detachable tow bar, which I use for a small trailer and a caravan. I intend to contact my dealer soon to get it checked and they may decide that I need the heavy duty tow bar to be fitted. I assume that this will include a flanged tow ball to replace my swan-neck version. Does anyone know whether the tow ball supplied by Land Rover is compatible with an Alko stabiliser hitch?
If this is the type of tow bar you are thinking of
You will see that I have added a 25mm spacer, this was necessary to achieve enough clearance for the Alko stabiliser head, you can just about see the mark on the tow bar where the stabiliser fouled it on full lock before fitting the spacer
1997 Defender 90 for the kids and I to have a go at some competitive off road RTV and Tyro trials, daughter picked up her first trophy over the August Bank Holiday.
Previous Land Rover history
1996 P38 4.6 V8 Autobiography
1996 Discovery TDi 300
1972 Range Rover 3.5 V8
LWB Hard Top Series 3
LWB Truck Cab Series 2A
Not been without a Land Rover for over 40 years - I must need therapy!
4th Jan 2015 8:15 pm
mcsimmo
Member Since: 08 Aug 2011
Location: North of the south
Posts: 1795
Derryfrombury, that's correct. My phone call seemed to be the first they knew about this.Man with no D3 anymore, but cant leave the forum....how sad.
4th Jan 2015 10:50 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
The service action was only released just prior to Christmas ...those dealers who still use pigeons for communication won't have heard until the letter drops through their box 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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