Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Argyll Scotland
Posts: 329
I think Griffmaster has hit on the reason for the excessive movement. My unit has supposedly passed inspection (not officially, it was during the "off" period but my car was in for service and they agreed to do it at my request). However, recently while towing I detected a knocking from the rear after spending a couple of hours in stop/start traffic on the A1, (everyone had decided to divert round an incident on the M!). When I stopped at the first convenient place I found that the tow ball literally rattled in the housing. I did not notice the position of the green knob but when I took the unit off and refitted it, it was solid. The movement was far greater than could be expected from crevice corrosion or fretting. If Land Rover are only looking at wear of the mating surfaces I think they are barking up the wrong tree - the problem described by Griffmaster is far more likely and potentially more serious
1st Aug 2015 4:50 pm
mohnwalk
Member Since: 07 Oct 2013
Location: The wilderness
Posts: 205
Can anyone please attach the letter in a readable .pdf document instead of a picture?
Thanks:)!
5th Aug 2015 12:12 pm
mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2702
Ive had the letter...but begs the question - what if i dont want a rubbish, ugly, gobby fixed plough - sorry tow-bar and i just tow occasionally?Mike
5th Aug 2015 1:04 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26744
There are indeed 2 types of tow bracket. I think Griffmaster is spot on, and I really do think LR are not understanding what is happening to some vehicles when towing using the removable bracket.
Like GM, and others, I too get a loose bracket that knocks when I tow. On initial fitting, my bracket snaps in securely, and has zero movement in any direction. When I tow my relatively light single axle caravan, after a few miles it starts to knock and creak.
If I investigate, the green knob has rotated back a little, and the bracket has pulled down from its socket a little, allowing the taper fitting to loosen and cause the knock. If I take the caravan off, the bracket snaps back into position, and the knob returns to the fully clockwise locked position.
Even with the key locked and removed, I can turn the green knob about 60 degrees anti clockwise, and this retracts the locking pawl as described by others. It is obvious that this is what is happening under load.
I think that the angle on the underside of the locking pawl is enough to be able to push the pawl back into the bracket (turning the handle in the process) and loosen the bracket in the chassis.
Over a longer period, this is going to wear out the chassis fitting and make the problem worse. I look after my bracket, and it is very well lubricated. Conversely, a neglected bracket may well not suffer from this problem as there may be sufficient resistance in the mechanism to hold it in place.
The history of my bracket goes back to Nov 2004, I got it with my first D3. I have always noticed this loosening, but nver really thought about it until all this lot started happening. About a couple of years after I got the car and bracket, I snapped the key off. To fix this I bought a new handle/lock assembly like many of us have. I noticed that the new style green handle was supplied, and the keys were the red round headed type (the early lock was a smaller handle with a small fragile black key)
I have noticed that the later handle (KNW500020) has a ratchet cut into the back of the handle. The earlier design (KNW500010) does not. On the later brackets (not sure of the date of change) the red ring behind the bracket is larger, and has a corresponding ratchet moulded into it. The early brackets have a smaller red locking ring with no ratchet.
As I have found out, it is perfectly easy to fit the later handle to an early bracket, but not vice-versa. On the later brackets with both ratchet parts, when the key is removed and the bracket locked, you cannot push the pawl back against its spring, nor can you rotate the handle anti clockwise. You have to pull the handle out to move it at all. On the early brackets, you pull it out to remove the bracket, you can turn the handle part way until it hits the lock stop. This has been enough to stop the bracket falling out, but obviously as the chassis wears this is eventually going to fail.
I have tried to contact Thule who make the bracket to see if there is a spare locking ring of the later type available to attach to an older bracket with a new style handle.
My dealer has been pretty useless, all they will say after looking at my car, and me explaining the situation was that I would have to buy a new bracket at @£500 if I was not happy with it, and that what I was experiencing was normal.
I think LR have really got this wrong, and need to start supplying new type locking rings with new handles. I would bet that all the failures are involving older style brackets (I don't know this for sure, its my gut feeling)
Here is KNW500010
Here is KNW500020
Clearly you can see the difference. Still can't find out if the other half of the ratchet is available to make an early lock into a later version.
A picture of the later corresponding ratchet ring.
And just for reference here is a picture of the 'old' type without the ratchet. (as fitted to mine)
Click image to enlarge
5th Aug 2015 1:09 pm
L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2080
Spot on , I have one of each and the early one will work out with slight wear on the receiver. I also wondered if one could fit the latest ratchet type lever to the earlier hitch. LR obviously know about the issue or it wouldn't have been modified!
5th Aug 2015 6:48 pm
KenR
Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Argyll Scotland
Posts: 329
Pete should be able to answer those questions. I will send him a Pm to draw his attention to this thread - if he is not already following it.
5th Aug 2015 7:58 pm
Sydney
Member Since: 11 Aug 2013
Location: St Neots
Posts: 903
Would be interesting to know if we can get the newer red part, mine is the old style and moves a fair bit.De-Tango
V8 Brakes
EGRs blanked
Running boards
3 flash indicators and clock on dash
Blingy grille...
5th Aug 2015 8:00 pm
mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2702
Silly question...i have had a recall letter for my 2014 disco, now gone, but not my 2015 disco...i could check topix but i assume it applies equally?Mike
5th Aug 2015 9:08 pm
CRC@LandRover Verified Account
Member Since: 12 Oct 2012
Location: Coventry
Posts: 415
Hi all
Thank you for your posts.
I note the comments made and would advise that Land Rover would not recommend using incompatible parts from different brackets when towing. We would only recommend using the applicable equipment that is relevant to the towing bracket in question.
Should any of you have any concerns regarding the towing equipment on your vehicle or have received a recall letter, we would recommend visiting your local Land Rover retailer who should be able to inspect your vehicle and advise accordingly.
Regards
Ryan
6th Aug 2015 2:02 pm
DaveS
Member Since: 15 Aug 2009
Location: Weybridge
Posts: 241
My car is from 2005 but I bought the detachable tow bar in 2009 and it has the ratchet action described above as the later version. I too have experienced the problem of the tow bar being tight when installed but working loose when towing a caravan. I have not noticed the problem with a lighter trailer. Therefore, I do not think that a later detachable tow bar or later parts will help.
Mine was checked by my Land Rover agent a couple of weeks ago and passed the Q393 test. However, as I was not satisfied that it was safe I contacted LR Customer Relationships and they have agreed to fit the multi-height tow bar free of charge.
6th Aug 2015 4:57 pm
MCW
Member Since: 12 Jun 2009
Location: N Ireland
Posts: 65
When I found my towbar working itself loose, I thought it was not that common in that, it was either loose all the time or stayed tight. I had looked at various ways to keep it in place and tight but was always concerned that in the event of detachment or other accident while towing, the insurer would use any unauthorised modification (regardless of being the cause or not) as an excuse to walk away and leave me to carry the cost.
Regardless of the looks, I am much happier towing with the fixed bar and no longer hearing the clunks and bangs the old one made.
6th Aug 2015 6:06 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26744
Pete@LandRover wrote:
Hi all
Thank you for your posts.
I note the comments made and would advise that Land Rover would not recommend using incompatible parts from different brackets when towing. We would only recommend using the applicable equipment that is relevant to the towing bracket in question.
Should any of you have any concerns regarding the towing equipment on your vehicle or have received a recall letter, we would recommend visiting your local Land Rover retailer who should be able to inspect your vehicle and advise accordingly.
Regards
Ryan
Ryan, Could you let me know if the earlier lock handle without the ratchet stop (KNW500010) is available as a spare? as far as I was aware, you can only buy the later type as a spare?
6th Aug 2015 6:08 pm
CRC@LandRover Verified Account
Member Since: 12 Oct 2012
Location: Coventry
Posts: 415
Hi Gareth
Thank you for your post.
For information regarding availability of parts I would suggest contacting the Parts Department of your local Land Rover retailer quoting the part number. They should be able to confirm availability and advise on cost.
Regards
Ryan
7th Aug 2015 9:22 am
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26744
Very sorry Ryan, but I already did that,and their answer is that If I am unhappy, I should buy a complete new bracket at nearly £500. They say that the early type is 'safe' and that their is nothing wrong with it.
I know that the only difference is as stated in my previous posts, the locking ring has changed. Why cannot this be supplied with a new lock?
Your answers are all very similar in that you point us back to the dealer each time, when in fact 'Customer relations' should be a mediation between the customer and the dealer.
Anyone else noticed that the term "dealer" is being replaced with "retailer" now?
Guess they're trying to shake off any association with the "wheeler-dealer" type image or the term "stealer", but to me it sounds naff.
I expect Pete and Ryan have had to endure a full team briefing on it... Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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