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nigel207
Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1351
  
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DG wrote:nigel207 wrote:
Ok, so it's fine now. What happens in three yea's time if it starts to show signs of wear? Will the current situation still be relevant in that three years time, and they replace tow bars that are fine now but not then? 
No... the service action is valid for two years but once your car has been checked and deemed satisfactory then they have fulfilled their obligation. No doubt you would have to prove that a "defect" was their responsibility beyond that.
So we'll be continually going around in circles then as "older" vehicles that have been found to be defective now might have been fine two years ago? That's almost as useless as saying a vehicle was fine when it passed its MOT eleven months ago................
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 15th Jan 2015 3:59 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
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Only if from the point of testing onwards you don't heed the instruction ...or you can prove the defect  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 15th Jan 2015 4:02 pm |
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nigel207
Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1351
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I suppose I'll have to see what is said then when I take mine, as I assume that the instructions given are more than the "don't leave it attached all the time" (which I don't) and "store it correctly" (which I do, if that means using the LR part). 
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| 15th Jan 2015 4:29 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
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They should ask you abut your towing requirements and advise accordingly. To me the main fall down point in this exercise is getting the dealers to follow the instructions given by LR ...as we have seen in this thread not all are going by the book it seems.
I would copy and paste the agreed procedure from the front end of this thread and make sure they do it properly. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 15th Jan 2015 4:48 pm |
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nigel207
Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1351
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Good point DG! 
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| 15th Jan 2015 4:51 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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DG wrote:They should ask you abut your towing requirements and advise accordingly.
Yes, that's a vital point which DG is now making - the advisory DG posted clearly says "(DVSA) have recommended Jaguar Land Rover issue a communication to all Discovery 3/4 and Range Rover Sport owners highlighting again the importance of using the correct towbar based on their towing needs." It is therefore not just an issue of the wear to existing tow bars, but also a "suitability for use" issue that has to be addressed in each case - NOTE the reference to the "importance of using the correct towbar".
Please do treat the issue very seriously & if you know other owners of D3/D4's mention it to them - the consequences of a tow bar falling out & a trailer breaking loose are not a trivial matter, and could create liabilities for both operator, retailer & manufacturer, which is precisely why LR are taking this approach of inspecting & carrying out replacements. They will hopefully err on the side of caution if there is any doubt, but they need owners to fully advise them of the towing requirements - although ideally LR should also provide objective rather than subjective advice on what the limitations of each unit are, and need to consider how that is clearly communicated to future owners of a vehicle.
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| 15th Jan 2015 6:05 pm |
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derryfrombury
Member Since: 01 Sep 2014
Location: Bury St Edmunds
Posts: 212
 
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| Q393 Service Action Detachable Towbars |
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As previously mentioned and as pre arranged, I took car into LR dealer (Marshalls Cambridge) today, for inspection as per service action Q393, and received a clean bill of heath, blue sticker attached to swan neck and LR supplement inserted into service handbook. Not only did they carryout the above, but also carried out a through visual check of the car, providing me with a full report, which surprising had no major issues and only a couple of minor things to keep an eye on. Very very pleased with the service we received, including the freshly made coffee and cold drinks for both myself and the wife whilst we waited the 1.5hours. Joined Aug 2014. Disco 3 SE 54plate, Buckingham Blue, Cream leather.
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| 15th Jan 2015 6:35 pm |
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WOODY179
Member Since: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 3640
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just picked my D4 up from the dealers where its been for the last week with battery problems. LR supplement for the tow bar was on the front passenger seat
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| 15th Jan 2015 6:40 pm |
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Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
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I had my towbar checked last week and received the supplement to the handbook.
I asked what happens now, will there be a need to recheck them on an annual basis? I was told that this was not an ongoing wear problem 'across the board' but a 'hunt for some towbars' that have a problem. (my words).
So that's that then? I can tow my 1700kg caravan whenever I like ...and for as long as I like.
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| 16th Jan 2015 12:38 am |
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David_Ritzema
Member Since: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Longfield, Kent
Posts: 7
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As mentioned in my earlier posts on this topic, after an initial inspection, I was advised by my LR dealer that there was nothing wrong with the detachable towbar and a replacement fixed towbar was not required.
I then spent some time pointing out that I regularly tow a 1750kg caravan long distances in the UK and Central Europe. I added that if I had come into the dealership to order a 2015 D4 for the purpose of undertaking that sort of towing, based upon the guidance given on LR's web site, I could not order the D4 with 13-pin caravan electrics without also ordering a fixed towbar. In addition to that, the handbook update leaflet, which had just been placed on the front seat of my D4, also emphasised that the detachable tow bar was unsuitable for heavy, regular towing. On that basis I could not accept that the detachable tow bar was suitable for my purposes.
After further deliberation, the dealer agreed to fit a fixed tow bar FOC. The work was undertaken on Tuesday and I am, once again, a satisfied customer.
I would therefore advise forum members not to accept "No" as an answer and keep pressing your dealer for a towbar upgrade. After all, the safety of you, your family and other road users is at stake if your detachable tow bar fails.
Incidentally, full marks to the service manager who listened sympathetically listened to my case for a fixed tow bar replacement.
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| 16th Jan 2015 7:35 pm |
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Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
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Well I can do 3000miles a year (mainly motorways) towing a 1700kg caravan around Europe. But I don't term that heavy regular towing and when asked, my dealer said it wasn't his interpretation either. But of course that's just his opinion. Unless LR categorically tell me I can't tow my caravan with a detachable towball, or I see signs of wear over the next year, I will stick with mine.
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| 16th Jan 2015 10:11 pm |
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fisherman
Member Since: 16 Jan 2007
Location: Hornchurch Essex
Posts: 1789
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Mines in on Wednesday and I'll be giving David's reasoning a go. I'm sure the detachable tow bar is up to the job as I've used it for years with no problems on the D3. My concern is that now I've bought a 1900kg caravan at huge expense, I need to have no doubts in my mind that it will continue to do the job without fail. I'm happy to fight the fight as I'm a natural negotiator and can resort to feet stamping and crying if negotiation fails. So I'll be back on Wednesday with my sticker then.  FFRR 2017 4.4SDV8 Autobiography. Cost so much I must be mad!
D4 HSE 2012 Like a second wife, more expensive but goes better! I almost cried this time!
D3 HSE 2006 (Almost 8 years together, true love)
Land Cruiser VX 1994 11 years together, wife cried when I p/ex'd for my D3
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| 17th Jan 2015 9:11 am |
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Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
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I suppose if you bought the D4 from new and had the tow bar fitted then, without the dealer asking what you planned to tow, you might have a strong case.
I purchase a used D4 with a detachable towbar. The dealer never asked what I planned to tow with it...and I didn't mention it.
Therefore, unless there is something inherently wrong with the safety of these devices (after the q393 check) I don't believe a dealer is going to replace mine foc, just because, as second owner, I have a different application to the first owner who specified it.
What we need is a clearer definition of heavy regular use.
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| 17th Jan 2015 2:42 pm |
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Clubber
Member Since: 11 Aug 2008
Location: Teesside
Posts: 372
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I had my car booked in for this check today. However, when I arrived, I was told that this work has been suspended by Landrover and that the dealer has been told not to do any more checks. They didn't have any more information.
I'm currently enjoying their coffee whilst they give the car a complimentary valet. I always get good service from Stratstones in Stockton! Bri
D4 HSE Luxury
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| 19th Jan 2015 2:38 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
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Quote:
A number of issues in the service instructions have been raised which we did not anticipate. The decision therefore has been made to suspend this campaign with immediate effect to prevent any further confusion.
This Service Action will be re-launched as soon as possible.
21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 19th Jan 2015 2:58 pm |
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