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Slug
Member Since: 07 Feb 2012
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 346
  
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| Can a dealer change the trade in value due to delivery delay |
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Hi
I did a deal to swap a Discovery last November for a March 14 delivery but it has been delayed, this wasn't a problem as the dealer said they would stand by the original trade in figure.
Problem I have is 3 days before they want to deliver it, I get a phone call telling me that they are going to have to reduce the trade in figure by £3000 as they as losing money on the deal.
I have a signed order form but no deposits have been paid and no written proof they they would stand by the trade in value although they did say over the phone in May/June that it shouldn't be a problem as it's their fault.
Not really sure where I stand as I accept I've had nearly 6 months extra use from the vehicle, although in hindsight perhaps I ought to have asked for a courtesy car in March until they were able to deliver the new one.
Appreciate any help you can give before I next speak to them. Still lurking, although moved to the dark side: disco5.co.uk
2019 D5 HSE
2019 Baby RR First Edition
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 27th Aug 2014 10:10 am |
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Scarab
Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Hastings
Posts: 1283
 
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The delay isn't down to you, they are trying to claw back from their own logistical cock ups, not your problem.
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| 27th Aug 2014 11:38 am |
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steveraspberry
Member Since: 18 Sep 2011
Location: Nr Sevenoaks,Kent
Posts: 2081
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I'd stick to my guns personally. £3000 is a huge difference. personally, i think that unless the trade in value isn't shown on the order form then you have a strong case.if it ISNT shown then you MAY have to re negotiate with them but your point about them being 6 months late with the delivery is valid. If they have breached the agreement regarding delivery dates etc then I'm guessing they must accept some responsibility. On a similar note, my dealer told me something similar regarding my order for mine and SWMBOS D4s due in September. He said they might not be able to deliver them until october and therefore the trade in value would be less. I buy 4 D4s a year from this guy and he wanted to penny pinch over a delay that was his fault! Suffice to say it didn't happen but I am looking at other dealers as a result. I think you issue here is not an isolated one unfortunately. Stick to your guns and you may well be surprised at the results. Best of luck fella.
Steve  My17 Volvo XC90 Inscription
MY15 Mitsubishi L200 Barbarian
RGK Tiga Fx Wheelchair,
Large Alsation called Abbs 
Medium blue Staffie called Piglet
Medium Alsation called Bailey
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| 27th Aug 2014 12:15 pm |
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astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8087
 
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They may just go "that's the offer" and then down to you. Guess they can sell it whether you cancel the order or not so may be no skin off their nose.......
I'd try negotiating but would expect the offer to be lower as car will have more miles on. Maybe you can demonstrate why its not £3k worth of 'worse' as that's a lot of milegae cost equivalent, or even if it's a plate move older can't see it being £3k worse for 3 months.
Not arguing you not to blame but really neither are they as may be late from manufacturer. They've done some sums and the 2nd hand car isn't worth what it was, simple as. Just don't see it as £3k worth.
If its all written down then you have a point to argue the toss on but at moment you are being offered the new car at the fixed price, its the used one that is variable.
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| 27th Aug 2014 4:33 pm |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
 
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They get at least four bites at the cherry....maybe a few more.
1) you decide to buy a new car - thier cut is called profit
2) you trade your old car in they pay one thing & sell at a higher price - more profit
3) you use finance to buy...yes they get a cut of that too..it a profit thing
4) they sell you all sorts of insurances (e.g. GAP)...another cut of the deck...profit
5) you use them for warranty work you dont pay for this LR do - you guessed it...profit
6) if you you use them for servive work - they make profit on that
7) you buy spares or accessories - even more profit
- if they make a deal on so much trade in they ought to honour it - if they got it wrong its not up to you to fund thier mistake...if it is a wrong calculation it seems steep to reduce by 3000 pounds
- as said above if its written down as a quote you have placed an order on - I would reckon its legally binding under the sale of goods act...worth getting some legal advice before you talk to them or abuse them (Citizens ADvice Bureu...usually free)
- if they have experienced delays for whatever reason - you shouldnt have to suffer
- ensure you have all issues written down...ask for a formal meeting to get the facts & put over your point of view - give them room to improve the off or get back to the original deal - tell them that option i open to them...I use a digital voice recorder of the discussion...you have to ask if they are OK with this...if they arent make written notes...take someone with you to do this & witness whats being said..tell them thats why they are there...
- speak to the guy at the top - the organ grinder - not the monkey....does the guy at the top actually know ?....if needs be ask for a formal meeting with the owner / dealer principle / MD or a director of the company...a formal meeting.
- Dont get mad or use any swearwords - if they are unprofessional dont follow thier lead
- ensure they are proper to you no 1st names its got to be Mr or Sir.......not mate or christian names
state you disatisfaction & what you intend to do:
- get advice
- take legal action
- speak to the Motor Trade Dealers Association.
- can you do & geta private sale that improves things (they lose out on item 2 above)
dont accept any other deal unless it suits you & your pocket..... BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 27th Aug 2014 5:46 pm |
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astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8087
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Hells bells BLF, it's a dealer disagreement not the fall of the economy 
Unfortunately, based on details in OP, the dealer is in the driving seat. Unless OP updates on details the dealer is selling him a new car at fixed price. That's not changed. A verbal offer at a moment in time was made. That 'moment' has changed by 3 months through no fault of either party.
Dealer has reviewed original position and feels it needs adjusting by £3k. Don't think it's the process that's at fault (and pretty sure will be covered by the 'small print' whether verbal 'contract' or written initially). It's the amount not the process that sucks to me.
Think trade in adjustment over extended periods is pretty standard fare. If you were buying an ex-demo car but mileage went up over the intervening time you may want to argue an adjustment?
However, you're right that they make a buck whatever you do 
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| 27th Aug 2014 6:36 pm |
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Slug
Member Since: 07 Feb 2012
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 346
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Hi guys and thanks for the advice
To clarify a few points.
The order form is signed by both parties. No terms & conditions on order form.
It's a order for a new Discovery.
The trade in figure was fair for a march trade in, with an agreed mileage of around 18-20k miles. Mileage at moment is approx 25-26k miles.
Road tax on ours runs at the end of this month.
I've been in touch with NFU Legal and they have taken it up but not sure if they will be able to help.
The dealer is still very much in the driving seat, as already mentioned, they would happily walk away from third desk as they know they can sell the vehicle with a bigger margin elsewhere.
Will keep you updated - I'm sure, that with the present delivery problems I'm not the only one. In some respects I feel sorry for the dealers trying to value vehicles so far in advance of delivery..
But I was always told - a deal is a deal - some you win some you lose.
I'm making contact with the dealer tomorrow in the hope of ruffling a few feathers, and hopefully come to a reasonable compromise.
Cheers again for all input given Still lurking, although moved to the dark side: disco5.co.uk
2019 D5 HSE
2019 Baby RR First Edition
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| 27th Aug 2014 10:02 pm |
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Russell
Member Since: 24 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
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Contact Pete from LR customer services and see if he can help. MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
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| 27th Aug 2014 10:17 pm |
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DerbyshireDisco
Member Since: 12 Mar 2012
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1397
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As you say a deal is a deal, stick to your guns. Displaced Yorkshireman.
=^:^=
SDV6 Auto obviously, Loire blue/Ebony, ugly kid glass, RLD wheel protector, private plate and maybe side steps.
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| 27th Aug 2014 10:27 pm |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
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astonbuilder wrote:Hells bells BLF, it's a dealer disagreement not the fall of the economy
Errr yes sort of.....but the guy asked what to do I added the ways of doing it...logical ways of dealing with dealers....stealers are all in there to make profit & most of them do - thrones that donet fall by the wayside
Aston....
do you agree or disagree with my seven point list ?...do dealers give any of the is for free
&
do you disagree with the ways to at first find out whats available, discuss the options & then get formal with with a dealer ?
....unless dealers are a different breed in your part of the world - when the chips are down you have to deal with the dealer as opposed to making a deal to buy a car....they wouldn't hesitate to use formal or legal ways to you should it be different for them ?
sadly in past years I have had to sort some wider family issues with car purchases (note not mine) & one dealer that stuffed me with a used (ex BMW UK demonstrator 5 series) - I have since ensured all agreed & written down.
all the cars I have bought over the last 15 years (bar one..my XK) have involved a trade in - none have involved finance so the 7 point list of possible ways to extract money from me is reduced by two (blo.ody great as it's my cash)
adding 6 or seven k miles to a car & it reducing 3 k pounds (& a couple of months older) is to me not on...the book values for the "right" amount of miles per year just dont adjust that way...
...from what I have seen with friends & guys at work - too many buyers & deals made are loose arrangements, nods, acceptances & what the dealers says - usually not in favour of the customer "us".
I have done the formal meeting twice & got exactly what I want & from one (Belfast based BMW dealer) 4 figure compensation for reneging on a written contract.
at the end of the day some guys come onto here for some advice or words of endorsement for a situation they are in (my Disco has a potentially sick transmission currently see other mails) - by coming onto here you get other peoples views, knowledge & experiences (& may be a bit of nonsense or ridicule...all meant in the best possible taste as Kenny used to say). Any of the words gained dont alter the reality but you are a bit wiser....maybe
....as they say "a fool & his/her money are easily parted"...me not a fool & my hard earned stays with me until I'm happy....really happy.....I haven't had to learn the hard way...by losing cash BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 28th Aug 2014 6:04 am |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1117
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I had the same issue on buying a new car many years ago - I turned up to collect the car and they wanted to reduce the trade in - I then said I would not take the new car that was already registered in my name and fees paid by the dealer.
They soon came around once they realised that as the new car had been registered in a customers name it was technically no longer new and could not be sold as such and they would loose lots on the registration cost, and the sale value so I got my new car and the agreed trade in value.
Garry
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| 28th Aug 2014 6:28 am |
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stick
Member Since: 13 Jan 2010
Location: hants
Posts: 596
 
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my 98k d4 hse was in for a service last week and I got them to quote me for an upgrade to a new d4. THey told me £19k now, but would drop £500 for next month. Might drop further as time goes on, but that prices tend to firm up as winter approaches so no need to allow £500 every month.
Seems to me that the dealer is ok to drop the bid on the trade-in, but 3k is probably too much. Need to do another deal? d4 HSE
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| 28th Aug 2014 8:02 am |
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astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8087
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BLF - I don't disagree
(there you go said in three words...... )
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| 28th Aug 2014 10:20 am |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
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astonbuilder wrote:BLF - I don't disagree
(there you go said in three words...... )
Well Said ! BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 28th Aug 2014 10:27 am |
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lespes
Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Sitting Down
Posts: 2232
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Been doing some research on selling mine.
Info I have now received is that Discovery 4 prices are due to drop very steeply in Sept. 3k would be about the mark.
Basically since 2011 a lot more have been produced 10k a year and they are now coming onto the market and it is anticipated they will force the prices down very steeply.
It would seem the dealers projected figures would of been correct at time of deal but market forces have changed in the last couple of weeks.
For sure the dealer is not looking at anywhere near his normal margin, but not sure they are in a loss making situation.
Definatley next month or so will be interesting in the secondhand market.
Me I have decided to delay selling hoping for some early intense wintery weather. D4 Landmark MY16 Santorini Black THE LAST
D4 HSE MY12 Marmais Teal: Gone. Missed a lot!
Freelander 2 SD HSE MY11 Silver:Thankfully gone.
D4 HSE MY11 Silver: Gone missed !
Range Rover Sport MY06 HSE Buck Blue: Gone missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Facelift MY Red Gone Missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Cobalt Blue: Gone Missed!
Discovery D1 Auto Oxford Blue Not missed at all!
Discovery D1 Avalon Blue First LR! missed!
Now demoted to a VW
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| 28th Aug 2014 5:00 pm |
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