Member Since: 13 May 2006
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Posts: 17
A sorry tale
Hi Guys
You may have read my first post when I mentioned that I was selling my old BMW 530d having bought a new D3. This is a warning for any of you that may be in a similar position in the future.
A little over a week ago a foreign guy called me in reponse to an ad I had placed in AutoTrader for my 2003 530d. We had a number of phone calls, always from the same mobile number, where he asked about spec, condition (he got me to email more photos of the interior) and we negotiated a price of £23,500. In other words, he acted like a normal buyer. At the end of this process, I arranged to meet him the evening that England played Sweden (the 20th) and he came up on the train to Chippenham (I live nearby) from London. I met him at the station and let him drive the car a bit, then we went to my house. En route, I learned that his name is "Kristen Makinen" from Denmark.
Once home, he produced a Danish photo driving licence showing the address "20 Trader Road, London E6 6FR" and an RBS banker's draft for £23,500. To be honest (and I continually beat myself up over this) I was concerned about letting the car go but I had sold cars before taking banker's drafts with no problem. So why would this be any different? The guy was very cute. He said "You're the buyer, you tell me if you would like me to come back to collect once the draft has cleared". This is the worst bit for me - it would have been so easy to say OK but I suppose it was more evidence that he was genuine. Since he had come up on the train, I thought it would be churlish to make him take two additional trips.
I banked the draft the following day at NatWest (a week ago) and, of course, yesterday the bank told me that the draft was counterfeit. Yesterday lunchtime I reported the car stolen to Wiltshire police but they have been too busy to come and see me so I still don't have a crime report number. I know that CCTV footage of this guy is likely to exist at Chippenham station (I met with the station manager yesterday) and I may have prints/DNA on the vehice registration (still in my possession) from where he completed the change of ownership section.
I have reported it stolen to the insurance company (First Alternative) and am waiting to hear back. But both their policy, and the policy document of the gap insurance that I took out, specifically exclude theft by deception.
The net of all this is that I am looking at a total loss of £23,500. Who the hell can afford to lose this kind of money? Certainly not me.
For God's sake, if you are reading this and are in the process of selling your car, please learn from my misfortune. Based on the previous posts on the PistonHead board, I think I was rolled over by an active gang from eastern Europe, posing as Scandinavians, always using counterfeit RBS drafts.
If anyone out there has any advice about either: (a) how I should manage the relationship with my insurers to get a different outcome; and/or (b) how to motivate the police to recover the vehicle, please post a reply. I would be hugely grateful for any advice at this time.
Thanks
Nick HarmerTD6 HSE, Bonetti Grey/Alpaca
28th Jun 2006 9:30 am
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Ouch - you have my sympathy mate! I hope you get a positive outcome from this!Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
28th Jun 2006 9:57 am
simkna
Member Since: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Leicester
Posts: 806
Really sorry to hear this mate. I hope you get some kind of positive resolution to this.
Thanks for the heads up. I am just about to try and sell my Audi privately, so this is good to know.
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D3 TDV6 S Auto
Rimini Red / Alpacca Leather
28th Jun 2006 10:02 am
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
I'm so sorry to hear your tale. As far as a way forward is it not worth approaching your insurer to appeal to their better nature, along the lines of what good publicity? Life assurers have been known to payout in these circumstances. I'd also try contacting motoring magazines such as Autoexpress they might be able to persuade a little more than you can. I'd certainly be onto Auto Trader, it is in their interest also that people using their magazine don't loose out.
All long shots I know but they just might work.DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
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28th Jun 2006 10:03 am
gavmurray
Member Since: 15 Nov 2005
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 46
I sold my X5 privately to a buyer who trades buying BMW and selling them on to BMW dealers. So efectively a private sale like yours. Everything was done over the telephone with the bankers draft given once the car was seen etc. The only difference being that the buyer arranged for the draft to be issued at a bank local to me. i.e. once he'd checked everything over and was happy that the car was what I'd said it was, we both went to the pre-arranged bank and had the draft drawn up and handed over.
The avantage of this was two fold. I new that the draft was genuine and not a fake, and he would not have to pay a draft fee in the event that he did not like what he saw or for what ever reason we agreed on a lower price. It also meant that he would not have to wait a day or two if I wanted to get the draft cleared.
In future, if I buy or sell privately this is the process I'll follow which I think is spot on for both parties.
Sorry for your loss. I hope it gets sorted out...Gavin.
06, D3 TDV6 HSE, Buck Blue
You have my sympathy Nick and I hope you get it resolved through the insurance company.
As a local, what really gets my goat is your comment that Wiltshire Police are "too busy" to come out and take a statement. In my experience (usually on the right side of it!) we have a pretty good force in this county but perhaps if they weren't so busy generating revenue, stopping people doing 5 mph over the speed limit, they could find a moment to come out and help a citizen who has effectively just been burgled to the tune of £23k
I wonder how much that shiny new police station opposite Sainsbury's on the A420 cost to build??
Rant over...
28th Jun 2006 1:13 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26705
I am sorry to hear this, but I am sure the Daily Mail would be more than happy to hear about Wiltshire Constabulary being "too busy"
It would if nothing else bring publicity to the scam.
Nick - whether or not you wish to publicly criticize Wilts Police, it might be a good idea to let either BBC Wiltshire Sound or the Gazette and Herald know about the story. A lot of the nationals scan the local press for interesting stories to pick up and as Gareth infers, there's no such thing as bad publicity...
Sorry to hear of your plight:
you might want to read a similar tale involving a Boxster, which had the owner track it down. There's a link in the first para. to another BMW fraud.Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50944
This is a sad tale.
Here's my twopence worth !
Surely you would want to keep the police on your side to assist in recovering your vehicle - afterall this is your only hope of recovering your £23k
The insurers will not pay out for this as they would argue your negligence in the situation (I'm sorry to say that and I don't want to imply that I think you are negligent ...but in reality this is what they will use as a basis not to payout if you reject their stance. Even if you take this to the ombudsman, past cases are fairly cut and dried and rejected).
Getting uptight about the Police response time isn't, at this stage going to do anything other than continue to wind you up ...and eventually them ! Just call again calmly and ask when an officer is able to call or could you go to the staition to talk to somebody.
You should focus your energy on getting your car back safely and to that end providing as much information to the police when they are available to take the information from you is your only route.
If the guy has used a mobile then locations are traceable via the network provider...they will only provide that to the police though so make sure you have all the records of call times etc. Tell them about the train journey too.. the issuing location may tie in with the phone records.
If the car has been sold on then you are still the rightfull owner....anyone that has purchased it, even in good faith, has no claim of ownership. Checkout e-bay and the trade mags, also use google search strings of the spec of the vehicle....you never know !
Anyway, good luck and let us know if you want any further help.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
28th Jun 2006 1:58 pm
nikko
Member Since: 13 May 2006
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Posts: 17
Thanks
Thanks for all the solidarity and helpful thoughts, guys.
I spent the best part of the morning down at Calne police station so my case is now "in the system". Unfortunately for me, there were recent murders committed in Melksham and Wotton Bassett (nice to know, eh?) so there is a very good chance that CID will be too busy to take the case on quickly. I suspect that CID involvement is mandatory if any progress is to be made. Notwithstanding all of this, I will not criticise the police - there really is no point. Maybe I should take aim at their paymasters, the politicians, instead.
I'm lucky insofar as a good mate of mine is a partner in a City law firm that specialises in insurance. He's arguing that such clauses are there to protect the insurer from fraudulent activity by the policy-holder (oh, I lost my car, really I did) and that since cars are treated under law as chattels, a loss such as mine can only be treated as theft. Since I took all reasonable steps to protect myself, and since the bank took 5 days to uncover the fraud, there is a case to be argued. I am now working out with them how much to take this to court.
The other bit of advice I received was to work out whether the draft was forged or stolen. If it's the latter then RBS can be held liable for my loss for failing to prevent the document from being stolen. This is a long shot but I have told RBS that the police need the answer to this question.
Finally, another good mate is a senior producer in the BBC, has been there forever, and knows the editorial teams on both Crimewatch and Watchdog. So I may get a hearing there, especially if we can get the perps mugshot off the Chippenham station CCTV and onto national TV. I will also give the local rags my story if they want it. All the locals may snigger but if I can stop one more theft like this then I couldn't care less about looking like an idiot.
Thanks for listening - it helps to get this off my chest and receive some good advice back.
NickTD6 HSE, Bonetti Grey/Alpaca
28th Jun 2006 3:06 pm
nikko
Member Since: 13 May 2006
Location: Calne, Wiltshire
Posts: 17
I forgot to mention the really bad news......
My wife is now saying that I must sell the HSE (3,000 miles) to offset the loss and run around in something cheap for a while. Not sure how to handle this as she has a point and there is no finance on the car.
Sorry about the theft!Loving the power of the TDV8!
28th Jun 2006 3:18 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23385
Re: I forgot to mention the really bad news......
[quote="nikko"]My wife is now saying that I must sell the HSE (3,000 miles) to offset the loss and run around in something cheap for a while. Not sure how to handle this as she has a point and there is no finance on the car.N[/quote
Explain to the wife about the massive loss you'll take if you sell the D3 & reassure her you'll get your cash back from the insurance co. etc.
Good luck.
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I hope you get a positive outcome from this!
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Explain to the wife about the massive loss you'll take if you sell the D3 & reassure her you'll get your cash back from the insurance co. etc.
