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S_Kirk
Member Since: 02 Apr 2019
Location: København N
Posts: 12
  
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Hi everyone!
Just joined the forum in hopes of getting some expert advice on a problem I've encountered.
The vehicle in question is a 2007 Discovery 3 2,7 TDV6 HSE.
The issue is; sometimes when driving the steering gets stiff, just like if there was no power steering. At first it appeared when turning off the highway (on the ramp), but now also out of the blue. In the beginning it was just for at few seconds and then vanished, but now it can continue for several minutes. One time I had to pull over, and turn the wheel back and forth a few times for it to disappear.
It never happens at slower speeds, only at above 80 km/h, and most often at 110-120 km/h - usually after about 30-40 minutes of driving.
I've searched different forums for post with similar problems, which have led me to changing the U-Joint in the steering column, and getting a new PAS fluid container (for the filter) - none of which have helped. Can't seem to find anyone with the exact problem either though.
I can't really do any of the repairs myself, so it's getting a bit expensive having a dealer troubleshoot the problem. The dealer (Danish Land Rover dealer) haven't encountered the issue before.
We have been reluctant to change the PAS pump, since it's expensive, and we're not sure it's gonna fix the problem.
The belt for the pump seems fine.
Last time it occurred, I checked the PAS fluid, it didn't have bubbles and was about body temperature.
I've recently had the front control arms and bushings replaced.
Tires are fairly new and aligned.
Hope someone can help!
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 2nd Apr 2019 11:29 am |
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S_Kirk
Member Since: 02 Apr 2019
Location: København N
Posts: 12
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Hi Philm
Thanks for the reply!
It's not really the same issue, and as mentioned I already did the replacement of the lower steering column/U-joint as suggested 
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| 2nd Apr 2019 1:26 pm |
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Dazz360
Member Since: 03 Sep 2016
Location: West Mids Walsall
Posts: 871
 
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I’m guessing the fluid is correct level and the right stuff Metal auto sump & fluid change (3 hrs)
LR door puddle projectors (10 mins)
Tinted Bonnet wind deflector (10 mins)
All Intercooler pipes and Tbolts (2hrs)
3 injectors replaced so far (30mins)
Sunroof drain pipes both sides 2.5 hrs)
Rear discs, shoes,pads,callipers,flexi hoses, rigid brake line, n/s upper hub carrier bush and rear n/s upper arm (13hrs over 2 days)
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| 2nd Apr 2019 4:43 pm |
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S_Kirk
Member Since: 02 Apr 2019
Location: København N
Posts: 12
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Well, i didn't put in in there myself, so can't say for certain 
The level is correct though.
The dealer i use for repairs is well renowned in Denmark, and almost exclusively work on Land Rovers, so can't imagine they didn't get it right.
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| 2nd Apr 2019 5:30 pm |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8099
  
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What colour is it? - if wrong fluid or correct fluid is contaminated with wrong oil or water it could cause this, change the fluid to be sure It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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| 2nd Apr 2019 7:22 pm |
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S_Kirk
Member Since: 02 Apr 2019
Location: København N
Posts: 12
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Just checked, and it's dark green.
Fluid was changed last week, and had the issue later the same day.
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| 2nd Apr 2019 7:54 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6570
 
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Do you know how it was changed? I’ve only seen someone suck out the fluid from the reservoir, add new, turn wheels left/right (to pump it around), do the same all over again a few times. I’m not sure if there is another way, perhaps someone else can chime in.
The fluid is kind of dark green by default. Pentosin CHF 11S works if you’re curious.
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| 2nd Apr 2019 8:06 pm |
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S_Kirk
Member Since: 02 Apr 2019
Location: København N
Posts: 12
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I'm afraid not. Haven't payed much to get it done, so can't imagine it's especially complicated (assuming they did it correctly).
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| 2nd Apr 2019 8:33 pm |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8099
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What about the filter itself?- no mention of it being changed or if it’s a genuine filter. Also you say you had to “pull over and turn the wheel back and forth a few times”, I doubt you could do that with a complete failure of hydraulic power, it would certainly be very difficult.
I once had power steering fail for a very short period and I very nearly rolled the car over when it returned.
There is also the possibility of a hydraulic pipe being damaged on the inside causing a blockage on the inlet side of the pump. It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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| 2nd Apr 2019 10:25 pm |
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Globetrotter448
Member Since: 21 Mar 2017
Location: Londonderry NSW
Posts: 1782
 
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Possibly oil cavitation in the pump (air lock when pump is at speed). When oil was changed, hopefully they got the air out.
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| 3rd Apr 2019 12:36 am |
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S_Kirk
Member Since: 02 Apr 2019
Location: København N
Posts: 12
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M3DPO wrote:What about the filter itself?- no mention of it being changed or if it’s a genuine filter. Also you say you had to “pull over and turn the wheel back and forth a few times”, I doubt you could do that with a complete failure of hydraulic power, it would certainly be very difficult.
I once had power steering fail for a very short period and I very nearly rolled the car over when it returned.
There is also the possibility of a hydraulic pipe being damaged on the inside causing a blockage on the inlet side of the pump.
I've had the PAS fluid container changed, which as far as I know contains the filter...? I'm quite sure the dealer i use for repairs only use genuine parts.
Had the same thought, that it would be really hard to turn the wheel if the power steering completely disappeared - made me think it could be a joint that locks up when getting hot.
Like i mentioned, the issue always occur at higher speeds, and usually disappear when i turn the wheel a bit (more than you do on the highway) - only had this one time where it persisted until i turned the wheels back and forth at a standstill.
It's quite hard to explain, since it doesn't always happen at the same time or place, and also not always shows it self the same. At first it was only when i turned off the highway, and only for a few seconds - but now it happens on the highway without turning at all, and continue for minutes/until i turn more.
Wouldn't a bad pipe or pump also show itself at lower speeds?
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| 3rd Apr 2019 12:44 pm |
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Globetrotter448
Member Since: 21 Mar 2017
Location: Londonderry NSW
Posts: 1782
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I would think that a bad pipe would be the same at all speeds whereas a bad pump would show all the time as a lack of power and not intermittent. Could be something like a bearing in the rack sticking.
Another thought could it be the ball joints on one of the suspension arms locking up.
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| 4th Apr 2019 3:37 am |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8099
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A worn pump will be identified by low pressure (heavy steering) at low revs and/or noise, possibly vibration/juddering of the steering wheel again at low revs when turning.
At high revs the output (flow rate and pressure) is high at is maximum, this is when any partial blockage, leaks or weak pipes will show up.
There is a relief valve in the system which blows when the steering is at maximum lock, this is when most leaks are caused, seals blown or detected because the system is under maximum pressure, it is good practice not to make a habit of holding the steering wheel at maximum lock, better still never hold it on maximum lock, always back off a little after reaching max lock 
If this relief valve is faulty and blowing off before it should particularly under high revs it could be the cause of the problem.
Contrary to what I have said about holding the wheel in full lock in this case I would try doing this two or three times in both locks with the engine ticking over not reving and holding for around five seconds, this will show the pressure relief valve is working and may clear any air locked in that part of the system, and show any of the above faults with the pump.
I would add in my opinion it is more likely to be the rack than the pump providing the pump has not got any of the above symptoms, lift both front wheels off the ground and try turning the wheels full lock with and without the engine running to check everything is moving freely. It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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| 4th Apr 2019 8:41 am |
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S_Kirk
Member Since: 02 Apr 2019
Location: København N
Posts: 12
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Don't have any of these symptoms at low speeds at all.
There seem to be some kind of consistency in when it appears, although this has changed a bit over time - at least it has gotten worse. Last few times have been after a long "smooth" right turn on the highway.
I'm not 100% sure about this, but there seems to be a slight difference in how heavy the steering is from day to day. It's very subtle, and might just be my mind playing tricks, since I'm constantly taking notice of the steering.
Sounds like I should get the wheels up and check the relief valves - what exactly am i looking for? Will faulty valves be audible, or can i feel it on the wheel?
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| 4th Apr 2019 10:12 pm |
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