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gecko_fr
Member Since: 26 Jul 2010
Location: Near Dijon
Posts: 127
  
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For a frenchy, paypal cost is 3,4% + 0,25 euro from 0 to 2500 euros, not for you ? 
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 4th Jan 2012 9:44 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50977
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BBS SPY wrote:Woody and DG etc, so you suggest that i should just do exactly what Paypay (in accordance with CC enforced wishes) and secretly hide this 6% extra to our products cost, for only the sole benefit of the CC companies (Banks GRRR) and say absolutely nothing, .
I'm trying not to be specific to you Colin and I understand the strong views on giving banks and cc providers what is seen as an execessive cost....... but which ever way you look at it it's a cost which you have to pay for the services that are provided for the ultimate benefit of your company 
....I could say that you are not telling me how much you pay the utility companies for providing power in your factory and whether you need more heat, light and power to produce your product in the winter compared to another customer who requires less because his was produced in the summer ...does he pay less ..??
...or how much more of your teams time (and therefore cost) is spent servicing 'high maintenance' customers who might take up considerably more time querying the product when I come along buy the product in a few minutes for the same value and you never hear from me again ...do I get a rebate for reducing your costs ??.
I could go on dissecting it and providing arguments of what is fair or not .....I know I'm being a bit pedantic but the reality is that like the examples above it should be reflected in your product pricing and spread in amongst your overheads and then everyone knows where they stand IMO  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Last edited by DG on 5th Jan 2012 12:51 am. Edited 2 times in total
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| 4th Jan 2012 10:23 pm |
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pom
Member Since: 10 Feb 2008
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1790
 
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Smoke and mirrors..
Dump Paypal and get a proper merchant account already.
There is no charge for debit cards, ok it's like 50p, certainy not your 6%.
Personally I always use a cc when making large purchases, and your kit is expensive, so that if there are any problems like you go bust or close I have recourse to my cc company.
I haven't seen any merchant accounts charging 6% perhaps you could link some?
Like DG and others have said, you don't expect or get a free ride with other business costs so factor it in to your overhead and forget about it. Credit cards are here to stay.
Pom
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| 4th Jan 2012 11:24 pm |
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crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
 
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Just this evening I had to book two flight tickets on BA Online. Worked out the best cost, went through all the details, entered everything, and then right at the end they say it'll be 3% extra to use a credit card (which I'll obviously do for the protection).
It's not a lot of money, but how much better would I have felt if they'd offered 3% off if I used a debit card?
Some business just can't help themselves  off customers! 
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| 5th Jan 2012 12:48 am |
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mzplcg
Member Since: 23 Jun 2009
Location: Gone
Posts: 1087
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pom wrote:Dump Paypal and get a proper merchant account already.
Gotta agree with this sentiment Pom, there is simply no getting away from the fact that PAYPAL are crooks. Why else would they base themselves in Luxembourg, i.e. outside the EU and thus outside the UE banking regulations.
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| 5th Jan 2012 7:58 am |
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leeds
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4314
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Must admit the amount of misinformation, guesses, surmises etc on this thread is astounding.
Luxembourg IS a member of the EU!
It has been a member of the EU and it's predeccsor the EEC since 1958!
Why is PayPal based in Luxembourg? I do not know. Maybe it is something to do with its lower VAT rate which I think is 15%?
Brendan
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| 5th Jan 2012 8:49 am |
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BBS SPY
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
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Paypal are indeed one of the worst
Their charges are quite dependent upon many factors you cannot really pre predict, like monthly turnover etc.
Then there are fees applicable for currency exchange, Fees to take the funds from them and transfer them to your CC account etc. I have become very P'd off with their seemingly endless demands and utter stupidity.
They once did a check (apparently random) on a transaction made through them when some chap bought an additional license for his system he needed quickly, he was happy, we were happy, but they still refunded him due to there being no shipping documentation for the purchased goods. Fortunately for us the guy was honest enough to then pay us for the code we had given him by other means.
I would love to tell them where to go, but Paypal is now such a recognized and desired means of making payment that really is not as easy as i would wish.
For direct CC, when i set this up there were very few choices. All the banks in Cyprus had only one choice, JCC who had the monopoly and still do to a large extent, and it was not so much the per transaction Fees but all the other stuff, like they had to old 20K of your money permanently, paid you many months later etc that put us off them.
So we set up an account with Worldpay.
They do issue some bottom line rate listings, but like all the others this changes according to risk circumstances like :
Being in Cyprus,
Internet Based Transactions.
Product supplied based risks
Card holder not physically present
Accepting cards issued by banks from other countries
Currency differences.
If i ran a physical shop in the UK, accepting payment in only GBP from cards issued by UK banks with card holder present, i could indeed take my pick and expect a sub 3% rate i might possibly be able to absorb as but another overhead, but that is actually far from the reality of my situation.
Feel as free as you wish to call me an absolute liar if you wish about the 6% average loss we incur, but i have always been totally honest and have absolutely no reason to fib.
My point in making this post was never ever about the amount, it was mentioned only in passing.
I could have simply said that due to increasing overheads i am having to raise the cost of supplying our equipment by 10% and no one would ever have been the wiser.
But i chose to raise a point that regardless of a 1%, 3%, 6% or otherwise this new non surcharge aspect really means that i am being forced to hide the costs and charge the same to everyone, which only benefits the bankers.
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| 5th Jan 2012 7:39 pm |
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pom
Member Since: 10 Feb 2008
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1790
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Colin,
I'm guessing, maybe incorrectly, that the UK is your bread and butter ? If so why not open up an account in the UK or get a sole distributor to take care of it so UK payments are processed in the UK. That is if it is indeed a large expense to you worthy of going to the effort. There are clearing firms that do nothing else than process payments, may me worth a look. Worldpay are only marginally better than paypal as far as fees go.
Greece / Cyprus etc have had it well to easy for too long and need to wake up and smell the coffee, the EU gravy train has left the station! They need to start charging and collecting tax, bin the retiring at 50 for state employees crap and spend only what they collect in tax. The only reason the Germans are still in the Euro is it hides their massive imbalance in trade, the Reichsmark would be skyhigh otherwise and the beemers would cost a fortune.
Pom
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| 5th Jan 2012 7:52 pm |
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BBS SPY
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
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Cheers Pom
I really appreciate your thinking and constructive input. In fact that goes for everyone.
The UK is however actually only a small proportion of our sales market and if someone purchased equipment that was paid for in the UK, I am pretty sure that VAT would have to be charged at 20% rather than the 15% we currently charge.
Interesting comments about Cyprus though, the Government here have just signed up for a huge loan from the Russians to avoid requiring an EU bail out and of course they just destroyed billions of Euros worth of power station they are going to have to find the money to repair. so they are raising all taxes, including VAT and hitting private businesses really hard. State employees just went on strike about their retirements, pensions and gold plated pay rises being compromised, with the complete lack of sympathy for them meaning they only dared to do so for half a day 
I think you are basically right though, as others have privately suggested also. I really need to start doing some shopping around to get a better deal than Wordpay have been getting away with charging me for far too long. There are apparently other options in Cyprus now than JCC and as you mention far many others to turn too. I have a good long track record and figures history i can put together as a report that can then be used to start playing them off against each other and getting some quotes in. I will then be tackling Worldpay from a much stronger position.
If i can get nearer 3%, then i will just absorb this as i have always done, which will cheer DG up 
As for Paypal, perhaps i will leave the 3% surcharge in place for that, as my new terms only state that i must not show preference to accepting payment methods other than CC.
Thanks to everyone for your comments, input, advice and help, i will write back in to let everyone know how i have got on with this.
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| 6th Jan 2012 4:01 pm |
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AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
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We have taken Credit/Debit cards for about 20 years and have never charged a surcharge, we just roll this cost into the price. Having said that we only pay 1% but don't take Amex or D/Card.
Would you belive it costs more to pay cash into my bank than C/Cards.
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| 1st Feb 2012 11:49 am |
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race.it
Member Since: 15 Oct 2011
Location: Hopefully at a race track.
Posts: 851
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Yes, I would believe that part about cash, I have a friend that has a garage, and he did some work for me on a car, and each time he was basically begging me to pay him using either a card or direct transfer, as cheques cost him more, and so did cash, he was amazed the amount of people that did not know the it costs him to pay in cash, and when a lot of people thought they were doing him a favour by paying cash.
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| 1st Feb 2012 12:13 pm |
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