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Location: Here
Posts: 575
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12th Feb 2023 12:15 pm
Mastertech
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
And people wonder why these engines eat bearings running what is essentially a 5w20 oil with a HTHS of 2.9 in a high torque diesel.
I run VAG 502 5w40 oil in mine has a HTHS of 3.6 and is diesel rated. I cannot fathom how common engine bearing issues are and yet people still insist on sticking with a oil spec that does not provide adequate protection.
2nd Apr 2023 8:52 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20830
HTHS is measured at 150 degrees C
You'll likely never see oil temps above 105 degrees
What is a bigger issue, is the quantity of oil in the engine My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
Oil temp around different parts of the engine can vary massively and sump oil temp only gives a indication of what’s going on. Also usage will vary oil temp ie towing 3.5 ton up a long incline is going to get the engine oil nice and hot.
Just because the test temp may be 150 degrees doesn’t mean the value isn’t relevant. Ford obviously thinks a thicker oil is required with a decent additive pack as they spec the same oil for the 3.0 in arduous usage as they spec for the 6.7 powerstroke.
Land Rover is more concerned about emissions than anything else. Look at the Ingenium it had numerous issues when released which are related to the oils inability to hold fuel and still protect the engine. Is a HTHS of 3.5 was specified then this would not have been a issue.
Take VAG, one of the biggest motor manufacturers in the world. They do not spec low HTHS oils for high output diesels. The two they do spec them for are in a detuned state from normal.
Keep drinking the LR oil is good oil fizzy pop all you want but people who want the best for their engines should use a VAG 504/507 spec oil as a minimum this has a HTHS of 3.5 is fully DPF compatible and has a add pack that’s hard to beat in a off the shelf oil spec. You simply cannot argue that it’s not a better oil.
2nd Apr 2023 5:18 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20830
The Ingenium issues are nothing to do with oil specified
Engine oil temperature will never reach 150 degrees inside an engine. If it did, it wouldn't last long whether it was running 5W30 or 5W40
The highest I've ever seen my oil temp was 106 degrees, towing an RRS up the M6 towards Shap
Other than a higher HTHS rating (which is largely irrelevant for the above reason) I've still seen no evidence or proof that 5W40 is a superior oil to 5W30...My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
I never said it would reach 150 degrees, just that you cannot rely on sump temp as a max temp your oils at, at that time.
The Ingenium issues are to do with oil specified. Maybe not all but most. They had to make changes so the evoque didn’t continue to kill engines running thin oil diluted by fuel. Same with the disco sport. Failing to recognise that which is something LR isn’t going to put in any technical bulletin is failing to recognise what’s causing the parts failures.
You need to understand that the way a oil is labelled “5w30” or “0w40” is actually a very poor way to categorise oil. A 0w20 can be just as “thick” as a “5w30” and making a statement like HTHS is irrelevant is irrational. I suppose you think CST is irrelevant too.
2nd Apr 2023 6:26 pm
Mastertech
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
You say you don’t see the need for a 5w40 over the 5w30. That’s fine I don’t actually disagree with that. What I do believe is the Ford/ JLR spec is poor for the usage scenario.
As you can see from the Ford specs compared (all the ones they have listed) against the VAG spec 504/507 the VAG spec is better in all cases other than fuel economy.
Personally I couldn’t care about 1mpg if it’s protecting my engine better.
2nd Apr 2023 6:34 pm
superantew
Member Since: 18 Mar 2023
Location: Sweden
Posts: 22
I'm planning on running the motul x-clean 5w40gen 2 Wich has way higher hths rating but still made very clean to be able to pass the dog filter..
Motul has another 5w40oil think this vag511 or something and has even higher hths and are made for high power vehicles.. Although this has thicker soot particles Wich might clog your dog.
That's my 2 cents.. I'm not running the 5w30..
5th Apr 2023 5:07 pm
Mastertech
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
A VAG 511 oil will be fine in a DPF equipped vehicle as it was designed to be used with particulate filters. The Audi RSQ8 in which this oil was first used is equipped with a petrol particulate filter.
6th Apr 2023 7:29 am
Weyboat
Member Since: 13 Apr 2018
Location: Weymouth
Posts: 273
Disco_Mikey wrote:
JLR state a 5W30 to STJLR.03.5005/FORD WSS-M2C934-B
They also state 15000 miles between oil changes!Gone 2016 Landmark D4
Current 2015 HSE D4 - AKA - 'Gandalf the Grey'
6th Apr 2023 8:21 pm
jmich
Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Mons
Posts: 21
One problem I've read about is that our engines can be sensitive to diesel diffusion in the oil, which leads to dilution and reduces oil viscosity when hot...
So with a 5W40 oil you have a bit more margin than with a 5W30... ?
But the easiest thing to do is to change the oil more often...JM
8th Nov 2023 9:42 am
NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 541
My first time wading into this issue! I won’t make a comment on the 5w30 or 40 argument as I am just a bloke driving a D4 and posses no qualifications to venture an opinion.
However, I can put my tuppence worth in regarding fuel dilution. I send a sample of every used batch of oil off for analysis and in my experience of 25 (ish) samples I can inform you all categorically that my D4 which has mixed use driving conditions (hours long drives at 60 ish plus many short journeys on A, B and off-road) that oil change intervals of 6000 miles will keep fuel dilution below 1.5%.
15,000 intervals will see dilution upwards of 5% (very dangerous) and soot levels of over 4% (a nice abrasive paste by that stage).
Therefore, whatever viscosity you use, keep oil changes more frequent - you decide what that is for yourself
Last edited by NC500 on 8th Nov 2023 10:18 am. Edited 1 time in total
8th Nov 2023 10:01 am
NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 541
Oil analysis labs put maximum fuel dilution levels at around 3.5% with 4% being identified as a critical level.
Oil manufacturers and test labs indicate that dilution in excess of 4% could possibly lead to “lack of lubrication” (as the oil viscosity is reduced) leading to bearing failures, premature engine wear etc.
JLR state that 6% is an acceptable level of fuel dilution - don’t know why their engine can tolerate such high levels….🤔🫤
If you are already running a low viscosity (ie 5w30) then for goodness sake, keep your fuel dilution levels low!
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