PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
  
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| Re: STOPPING ON STEEP SLOPE |
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Catweasel.... 
Muzza wrote:stop on a very steep and slippery slope to get out and check the track ahead.
Saying this....CW has a point....why not just park safely on a flat bit and then walk down/up the slope yourself??? 
I do however agree with CW's post about the sarcasm towards DG....it's not really necessary Muzza 
The idea of putting the EPB on before sticking the transmission in P is simply to relieve the pressure on the parking pin on a regular basis....the EPB is designed to hold the vehicle's weight securely on any terrain including slopes....it doesn't guarantee in any way that the tyres will have enough traction to stay there though...
If in doubt and the track is rough enough that you need to walk it first, then I'm assuming that you're not alone...in this case just get your co-pilot to get out and walk the 30km for you 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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 2nd Apr 2008 1:29 pm |
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Muzza
Member Since: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Sale
Posts: 10
 
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Why park on a steep slope?????
You are going down a very long and steep slope needing 4WD. I mean really steep that it would be hard to walk down and the 4WD is earning its keep. If it was not that steep then the hand brake would hold any way. The track ahead becomes washed out and it requires investigation before you can proceed safely. To investigate you need to get out of the car and this is when you need both the hand brake and transmission park to hold the car.
That is why you need to park on a steep slope. I am not talking about parking in the suburbs where you can choose where you park. It is likeley that your are 2 hours along the track and have been decending a particular hill for 20 minutes so its not like you can just back up to nice level spot. If the EARTH was flat I would not need my DISCO 3
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| 2nd Apr 2008 5:16 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10439
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Options are as I see it
1 Tie your car to a tree or ground anchor.
2 Park in a safe place and walk the track.
3 Trust the EPB and 'Park'.
4 Buy a tracked vehicle.
5 Stay at home.
6 Get your friend who owns a D3 and get them to stop on the very very very steep hill first to see what happens. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 2nd Apr 2008 5:28 pm |
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Muzza
Member Since: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Sale
Posts: 10
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It seems that I am getting some fairly silly answers from poeple. I suspect there are a lot of D3's that dont see the steep terrain we get in the Australian bush.
DOES ANY BODY KNOW IF THE TRANSMISSION PARK MECHANISM is designed to take the cars weight on a rugged track or if it a flimsy thing designed to stop it rolling down your driveway?
If no one knows then continuing with this thread is pointless. If the EARTH was flat I would not need my DISCO 3
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| 2nd Apr 2008 9:59 pm |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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Lots of things are designed to certain parameters but fail in operation. Would LR have designed the transmission brake for use on steep hills? Yes. Could it still fail? Yes.
End of thread? I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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| 2nd Apr 2008 10:05 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
 
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Muzza.
We get steep tracks in the UK too
If the ground has the traction then the EPB will hold the D3. Also leave it in gear / park as a safety.
I've tried pulling away with my EPB engaged in Low 1st (manual) and the thing will not budge. Can't imagine LR designed an EPB that won't hold the D3 on a 45 (and a bit as a safety margin) degree slope.
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| 2nd Apr 2008 11:00 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50967
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OK ...look at it this way:
It doesn't matter whether the vehicle is parked on a slope on-road or off-road, the same gravitational forces will apply to the Park position and the EPB. The only additional consideration you need to have off-road is the surface stability.
LR's documentation for driving inclines off-road is as follows
Quote:Stopping the vehicle on soft ground, in sand
or on an incline
If you do stop the vehicle, remember:
• Starting on an incline or in soft ground or
sand may be difficult. Always park on a
firm level area, or with the vehicle facing
downhill.
Quote:DESCENDING STEEP SLOPES
WARNING:
Failure to follow these instructions may
cause the vehicle to roll over.
• Slow the vehicle and select LOW range.
• With the transmission in manual
CommandShift mode, change down the
gears to select 1 before bringing the
vehicle to a stop at least vehicle length
before the start of the slope.
• Engage Terrain Response/Differential lock
before proceeding.
• Select Hill Descent Control (HDC).
• Once the descent has been started, D can
be selected in the main gearbox. HDC will
continue to operate and the previously
selected manual gear will be retained until
the descent is complete.
Caution: Do not attempt to drive the vehicle
continuously at angles greater than 35
degrees nose up or down, or 35 degrees side
to side. It is acceptable to drive up or down at
angles between 35 degrees and 45 degrees,
but only momentarily.
Failure to follow these instructions will result
in damage to the engine.
There appears to be no suggestion that the Park selection or EPB cannot be applied up to 35 degrees provided that the surface is stable...indeed it may be true that the application could be higher !
Of course some of us have been in the position of stopping the D3 on a known steep track and doing exactly what you are asking. But that is a known track that was walked initially and is now familiar in context ...Ultimately the only advice people will be prepared to offer you for the unknown will be as has been suggested ...get out on appropriate ground and walk it
I really don't understand what other advice you anticipate ...." oh don't take it beyond 40 degrees because I did and my park selector and EP brake failed .... the motor rolled down the hill and was written off" ??? The truth is people are extremely unlikely to put themselves in that position in the first place.  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 3rd Apr 2008 12:13 am |
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Bushwanderer
Member Since: 27 Nov 2007
Location: Northern Rivers, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2050
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Hi Muzza,
If, as you say, some of the replies are facetious (my word), I think that is because your original proposition is somewhat silly.
Off-roading is all about not getting yourself into situations that you can't get out of. Therefore, the replies that you have received. As the Irish gentleman said "if you want to go to xxxx, I wouldn't start from here". In other words - do your darndest to avoid the situation that you propose.
If, on the other hand, you find yourself in a situation where the D3 starts following you down the hill, get back in the car quickly and apply the footbrake. If you don't have anyone nearby who can use a footbrake, put the transmission in "park". What have you got to lose?
Best Wishes,
Peter
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| 4th Apr 2008 5:05 am |
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Carabraxis
Member Since: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 221
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What about a couple of chocks under the front wheels.
That way if the rear wheels start to slide - which I think is the biggest issue, not the hold of the EPB - it will stop on the chocks.
That plus into park would be belt and braces so to speak.
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| 4th Apr 2008 9:46 am |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
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Also put in in reverse....
That way it will only be able to roll back up the hill
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| 4th Apr 2008 9:57 am |
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Carabraxis
Member Since: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 221
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With the auto will it not move through slip in the torque converter if in gear?
I know with a manual in the old D2 one way to stop on a steep slope was to stop the engine and use the compression to bring the vehicle to a halt - can the same be done on the D3?
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| 4th Apr 2008 10:20 am |
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Alex E
Holy Bratwurst!
Member Since: 22 Mar 2006
Location: Club Tropicana (the drink's aren't free)
Posts: 869
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has anyone said about just turning the wheels so that the vehicle tries to drive out of the ruts, this would then act as a brake. if there's no ruts about, you could in theory just turn the car and park sideways on the hill (if not too steep) the vehicle would then not roll.
I think it's good practice to turn the wheels as if everything did fail the car wouldn't come after you down the bank, there's nothing quite like getting run over by your own car when no one is around... I'm Powered by........Diesel 
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| 4th Apr 2008 10:21 am |
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catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
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if you dont park on a steep, steep,steep, steep,steep, steep,steep, steep cliff face slope then its not an issue is it and no I dont buy the arguement given as to the need to do this IMO
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| 4th Apr 2008 10:30 am |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
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And if the slopes that steep then you would not be able to go back anyway... you've effectively already committed yourself to whatever is in front of you.
And TBH your never going to be alone are you (especially not in the outback - that is the right phrase is it not ?) so your passenger / co driver will be able to walk ahead and spot you through anything. PMR's in hand of course.
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| 4th Apr 2008 10:42 am |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
 
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Carabraxis wrote:With the auto will it not move through slip in the torque converter if in gear?
No....if the auto transmission is in park it locks the transmission from the gearbox to the wheels (via the transfer box & diffs of course).......the torque convertor is between the engine & the auto box....if auto transmission not in park & in the event of freewheel movement (say - roll down a slope) the engine will not be turned over....the reason you cannot "push/bump or tow start" an auto.
The opposite applies in a manual transmission.....gear selected, clutch out, the freewheel movement will attempt to turn the engine over.....if its a high gear.....it will. Thats why its suggested when you park a manual vehicle (4WD or 2WD) on a steep incline leave it in gear i.e. a low one 1st or reverse....the low gear & the compression of the engine are acting as being "unturnable"
......The D3 system of the electronic park brake working on back axle brakes only & not a transmission brake like the D3 (& other LD's) is in my opinion an inferior system......OK for parking in the street....but not rugged enough for true 4WD duty as a D3 is intended for. Hence this thread. BREXIT - done properly.
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| 4th Apr 2008 1:46 pm |
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