Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
assessment camshaft bearings
Hi
I just changed my camshaft tensioners, and found some concerning markings on the camshaft bearings.
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All the marks are feel-able with the fingernail.
The bearing surfaces on the head itself are much better. almost no scratches.
A little bit of background information:
I found that the chain tensioner where not correct installed, and also the chains them self where not on the marks of the camshaft. But the timing was ok.
I also had the feeling that the screws of the bearing caps where much to tight.
I think one of the pre-owners did a very bad job on them.
I'm not sure what I should think of this.
The engine sounds ok. Runs smooth (when it runs)
How bad is it really?
I have concerns that on a engine, which is known for its bearing issues, this could make things worse.
any thoughts on this?
Best regards
Roland
30th Dec 2021 10:53 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
The scoring itself, so in the rotation direction, in itself is not directly a major problem, as long as the bearing surface supports the camshaft bearing surface “enough” (no play or play within the factory margin)
As far as i know they are line bored, so not exchangeable (are they numbered?) normally but not 100% sure on this engine as i did not check it on this model, never seen different though
The cause is more interesting though…. If it is debris in the oil (i have seen black sludge debris, as hard/sharp as rock/sand) than there can be more wear on other places too than preferable for an engine… clean it as much as possible..
BUT i think that this kind of wear is also due to a lack of oil pressure in general…. Since the camshaft is pushed upwards mainly, the wear is also at the highest point of their bearings..if the oil pressure drops to much, what i have seen on the TDV6, the oilpump is at its end after 100k mls (160k km) i have the impression that a lot of main bearings also spin arround that mileage…
Back to these camshaft bearings, a slightly thicker engine oil than standard, will give this engine in the top end quite a few more miles, before it gets to bad… i think…Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
30th Dec 2021 11:30 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 357
You don't say if you have a D3 or D4, but your profile picture is a D3. So I will answer based on a D3.
Agree with Motolab - you have had low oil pressure and hence low oil flow.
Consider checking your oil pump. Even if it is a later D3 that was fitted with the reinforced oil pump housing when built, these were only 11mm wide pump rotors. Replacement LR pumps have 15mm wide rotor elements giving you a nice oil flow upgrade. I'd take off the current pump and check clearances and rotor width. A new pump might buy you some time?
However I would consider checking your main and big end bearings if you are up for investigation.
Odds are you are close to a bigger issue. Larger bearing clearances reduce main bearing load carrying capability under load in my opinion. As the main bearings are very narrow there is little tolerance for suboptimal conditions.
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
Hi
Its a 2006 2.7 tdv6 D3
The oilpump was one of the first things I changed when I bought it 1,5 years ago. And it already was a new design pump installed.
I don't know when this happend. but I guess severel years ago.
Your conclusions are the same as mine:
Its no immediate problem, but it will influence the long term stability of the engine.
Now I have the problem that this car should be our, long time, far travel, off grid, family overlander.
We drive it a maximum of 5000km a year. But mostly this 5k within a couple of weeks.
Now I have to decide if it is to risky to use this car. I don'T want a major engine failure in the middle of Sibiria or in North Africa.
Damn it! we really love this car!!
Best regards
Roland
31st Dec 2021 11:05 am
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
i see still no mileage off the engine...
BUT change the big-end shells AND the main bearings...
they will look like this after 110K kilometres (Left) and 240K kilometres (Right)
Click image to enlarge
not difficult to change (with the engine out) but also doable with the engine in...
not expensive and will give this engine another long life...
the camshaft bearings are not the big problem for the longlivety if you use a thicker oil..Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
31st Dec 2021 11:50 am
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
Its at 200000km at the moment.
Which oil would you recommend? Standard 10W40?
I'm not sure if it is doable for me to rebuild the lower end of the engine. I have all the Equipment and as well the knowledge, but im not a perfectionist. I'm more the botcher type.
And if I open the engine, what else will I find? And where to start and where to end the rebuild?
Rebuilding the bottom and knowing that the camshafts at the top are still in pretty bad condition.....
I'm not sure what to do.
How hard is it to change them with the engine in the car?
Best regards
31st Dec 2021 2:00 pm
aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2463
Standard oil is 5w30 but with wear and high mileage I would use 10w40 and maybe some slick50Andrew
D3 2.7tdv6 2005
D4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial died and gone to LR heaven
D5 3.0 SDV6 HSE
31st Dec 2021 2:25 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
My right hand back tensioner has always tinkled from cold start for a few seconds since I have had the car, tried 5/40 and the tinkle lasted twice as long before oil light went out, so what you might gain in increased load bearing/space filling with the thicker oil you might lose out on with increased wear before oil pressure is up?
I think that first cam cap pic has a story to tell of some previous failure?
31st Dec 2021 5:17 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
Fuxl wrote:
Its at 200000km at the moment.
Which oil would you recommend? Standard 10W40?
I'm not sure if it is doable for me to rebuild the lower end of the engine. I have all the Equipment and as well the knowledge, but im not a perfectionist. I'm more the botcher type.
And if I open the engine, what else will I find? And where to start and where to end the rebuild?
Rebuilding the bottom and knowing that the camshafts at the top are still in pretty bad condition.....
I'm not sure what to do.
How hard is it to change them with the engine in the car?
Best regards
“Rebuild” is a BIG word i use to think… changing 12 bid-end shells and 8 mainbearing shells…
Idd use new new conrod bolts, but the very big mainbearing bolts can be re used without much risk..
More people do it that way, i did it and no problems with them..
Have a look @ island4x4 for some bearing sets… a gasket set for the ladderframe and sump, you can leave the mainshaft seal at the gearbox side insitu if you change the mains one by one… maybe even the oilpump (i did it with the engine out but saw a video on youtube from a guy who did change the shells from under the car.. i think peteK did send me the link to the video 2 years ago)
If you want a reliable engine for overlanding, you need to change the shells at that mileage IMHO..
They are the weakest point in your engine, not the camshaft (bearings)….Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
31st Dec 2021 7:29 pm
Devon Z
Member Since: 14 Nov 2019
Location: Brixham Devon
Posts: 251
I’ve been adding Lucas oil stabiliser at oil changes, starts so much quieter and smoother and as it says on the bottle prevents dry starts.Steve
*2005 RR Sport 2.7tdv6 HSE. Current project.
*98 Volvo V70R FWD, owned 14 years, future project.
*99 BMW Z3 30k miles owned from new.
31st Dec 2021 7:31 pm
aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2463
lynalldiscovery wrote:
My right hand back tensioner has always tinkled from cold start for a few seconds since I have had the car, tried 5/40 and the tinkle lasted twice as long before oil light went out, so what you might gain in increased load bearing/space filling with the thicker oil you might lose out on with increased wear before oil pressure is up?
I think that first cam cap pic has a story to tell of some previous failure?
5w40 will have the same properties as 5w30 when cold but will retain its viscosity longer at higher tempsAndrew
D3 2.7tdv6 2005
D4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial died and gone to LR heaven
D5 3.0 SDV6 HSE
31st Dec 2021 8:45 pm
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
Hi
I just measured the oil pressure at the oil pressure switch.
Its around 3,5bar at idle Cold with 5W30
Has anybody some more information about the crankshaftbearing change IN the car?
I was just lying under the car, but i'm not sure if it is possible.
best regards
Roland
2nd Jan 2022 4:19 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 357
It’s the pressure at idle with a warm engine that’s the given parameter in the lr manual. Can’t remember figure, but think 1 bargSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
2nd Jan 2022 4:56 pm
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
Its 1.1bar at idle with a warm engine and warm oil with 5W30.
I looked more into it, and I think its possible to get to the crankshaft from below.
How hard is it to remove the bearing caps from the block? can I rotate them with the crankshaft to the open side like in this video:
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I don'T want a major engine failure in the middle of Sibiria or in North Africa.
