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Tringsaint
Member Since: 25 Mar 2019
Location: Tring
Posts: 20
  
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| Rotational rubbing sound under light acceleration |
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Hi,
I have recently purchased a disco 3 2.7tdv6 with auto box and i have noticed that under light acceleration there is a metallic rub,rub,rub sound that occurs when at low-ish revs as you pull off / accelerate.
It only seems to occur within a narrow band of revs / torque and doesnt occur when the engine is cold, only when warm and seems to be getting louder.
I have checked the brakes (there is a lip on the front discs but there is no noise coming from the wheels then turning so i dont think its these) and i have looked at the injectors and can see no sign of leakage.
Other posts on disco sites suggest similar noises coming from the front diff or maybe wheel bearings, but as the noise only really occurs under certain conditions (well, its only audible under certain conditions) i cant imagine it being a wheel bearing.
Im thinking that this is probably a common disco thing so before i take it in to the garage, some thoughts on possible cause would be great.
Thanks
Steve
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 25th Mar 2019 6:22 pm |
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Tringsaint
Member Since: 25 Mar 2019
Location: Tring
Posts: 20
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forgot to also say that the sound seems to come from the front near side and cant be heard with the windows down.
Thx
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| 25th Mar 2019 6:23 pm |
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DIY Ace
Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 965
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Have you considered the torque converter? Mine makes that sound as it flutters between 1700 and 2000 rpm, but only when warm. I suspect that might be due to the gearbox oil being more pliable when warm.
My rpm bounces too when warm, not hugely but noticeable when you look for it. Again 1700 to 2000 rpm. Does yours? Worse under hard acceleration.
Mine is off to Bristol Transmission for a replacement in two weeks, about £1500 in total inc gearbox flush etc. They’ll test the gearbox itself too but hopefully that won’t require replacement! 2022 BMW i4 M50. Bought Oct 2022. 10,200 miles and counting...
2014 BMW 435d convertible. Bought July 2021. 58,000 miles and counting...
2005 Discovery 3 HSE Auto. Bought Feb 2019. 169,000 miles and counting...
2009 Freelander 2 XS Manual. Bought Sep 2013. SOLD Aug 2021 (already regretted!)
https://youtube.com/channel/UCO_u_0D45x9KGfiNstzLJnw
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| 25th Mar 2019 7:32 pm |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8170
  
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Park brake cable rubbing on the rear near side tyre is worth checking- sound travels and is deceptive  It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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| 25th Mar 2019 8:10 pm |
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Tringsaint
Member Since: 25 Mar 2019
Location: Tring
Posts: 20
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RichardMaby wrote:Have you considered the torque converter? Mine makes that sound as it flutters between 1700 and 2000 rpm, but only when warm. I suspect that might be due to the gearbox oil being more pliable when warm.
My rpm bounces too when warm, not hugely but noticeable when you look for it. Again 1700 to 2000 rpm. Does yours? Worse under hard acceleration.
Mine is off to Bristol Transmission for a replacement in two weeks, about £1500 in total inc gearbox flush etc. They’ll test the gearbox itself too but hopefully that won’t require replacement!
Hi Richard,
i think you might be right - just took the car out and when you floor it in low gears the engine seems to struggle to put the power down and the power seems to pulse until it hits 3rd / 4th and then it smooths out (when the torque would be lower).
Also putting it into low range and the various terrain settings couldnt replicate the sound (again not surprising if the transmission is adjusting itself for mud, etc ) so it seems to be a problem only in normal driving settings.
its under warranty so will give it to them to fix!!
Thx
Steve
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| 25th Mar 2019 8:16 pm |
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Tringsaint
Member Since: 25 Mar 2019
Location: Tring
Posts: 20
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M3DPO wrote:Park brake cable rubbing on the rear near side tyre is worth checking- sound travels and is deceptive
thx - will check that too
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| 25th Mar 2019 8:16 pm |
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DIY Ace
Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 965
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Mine has been out for a test drive with a transmission specialist this morning, immediately diagnosed the source of rattle as a likely destroyed bearing on the torque converter. The torque converter rattles at certain points of the Rev range and certain load conditions, being quietist when cruising at low load.
I’ve parked the car up and will not use it until the converter is replaced to avoid risking the whole gearbox, though it is likely I’ll replace that too at the same time. Going to be about £2600 plus vat sadly, if the box is swapped, including the cost of the new converter.
Once they’ve got it up on the ramp they will do a full diagnostic including analysis of the tranny oil to make sure there’s no water contamination. Assuming it’s just the converter and there’s no crap flying around inside the box, I might get away with just the converter at £1250 plus vat. 2022 BMW i4 M50. Bought Oct 2022. 10,200 miles and counting...
2014 BMW 435d convertible. Bought July 2021. 58,000 miles and counting...
2005 Discovery 3 HSE Auto. Bought Feb 2019. 169,000 miles and counting...
2009 Freelander 2 XS Manual. Bought Sep 2013. SOLD Aug 2021 (already regretted!)
https://youtube.com/channel/UCO_u_0D45x9KGfiNstzLJnw
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| 26th Mar 2019 11:34 am |
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Tringsaint
Member Since: 25 Mar 2019
Location: Tring
Posts: 20
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Hi DIY Ace,
thats interesting - how many miles has yours done?
I spoke to the dealer today and we are going through a process of elimination starting with an injector and ERG cleaner. If nothing happens then it will go back to him to analyse and resolve as still under warranty.
Thing is with mine is that its an 05 plate but with 64k on the clock so i suspect its been used for the school run and such like, so lots of small journeys, so there is a good chance that a good engine clean and a bit of driving will sort some things out, but if the TC is knackered then he will need to fix.
There certainly doesnt seem to be any loss of power, just getting it to the wheels!
Thx
Steve
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| 26th Mar 2019 1:21 pm |
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DIY Ace
Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 965
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Mines an 05 too with 135K on the clock. Was sold and serviced for years in Mayfair London by Stratstone there. Hence I suspect lots of slow speed London driving for the first ten years and then catch-up with lots of high mileage years since then.
You’re right to look at the other things first - gearbox issues are not cheap! 2022 BMW i4 M50. Bought Oct 2022. 10,200 miles and counting...
2014 BMW 435d convertible. Bought July 2021. 58,000 miles and counting...
2005 Discovery 3 HSE Auto. Bought Feb 2019. 169,000 miles and counting...
2009 Freelander 2 XS Manual. Bought Sep 2013. SOLD Aug 2021 (already regretted!)
https://youtube.com/channel/UCO_u_0D45x9KGfiNstzLJnw
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| 26th Mar 2019 1:28 pm |
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Tringsaint
Member Since: 25 Mar 2019
Location: Tring
Posts: 20
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its funny - i sold a 23 YO Hilux Surf for buy the disco and in the 3.5 years i had the hilux it cost me nothing in terms of repairs, only oil filters and 3 MOT's!
what does that say about jap vs brit engineering!
only had the disco for 4 days and is under warranty and they know there is an issue so its covered, but just want to diagnose correctly and get fixed, not just patched up!
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| 26th Mar 2019 1:33 pm |
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DIY Ace
Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 965
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Simple engineering make for simple-to-fix mistakes. The discovery is far more complex and therefore more complex to resolve.
My other Landy is a Freelander 2 that in 130,000 miles of ownership has never missed a beat. It’s a car-by-car lottery. 2022 BMW i4 M50. Bought Oct 2022. 10,200 miles and counting...
2014 BMW 435d convertible. Bought July 2021. 58,000 miles and counting...
2005 Discovery 3 HSE Auto. Bought Feb 2019. 169,000 miles and counting...
2009 Freelander 2 XS Manual. Bought Sep 2013. SOLD Aug 2021 (already regretted!)
https://youtube.com/channel/UCO_u_0D45x9KGfiNstzLJnw
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| 26th Mar 2019 1:48 pm |
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Tringsaint
Member Since: 25 Mar 2019
Location: Tring
Posts: 20
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its all worked tho - was an auto with switchable 4wd and diff lock but manually activated low range for 4wd. The only thing that was naff was the heater - typical jap import!!
still you cant expect to have a warm car and a working transmission!!
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| 26th Mar 2019 2:08 pm |
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DIY Ace
Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 965
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DIY Ace wrote:I’ve parked the car up and will not use it until the converter is replaced to avoid risking the whole gearbox, though it is likely I’ll replace that too at the same time. Going to be about £2600 plus vat sadly, if the box is swapped, including the cost of the new converter.
Once they’ve got it up on the ramp they will do a full diagnostic including analysis of the tranny oil to make sure there’s no water contamination. Assuming it’s just the converter and there’s no crap flying around inside the box, I might get away with just the converter at £1250 plus vat.
With great relief I am am able to report that the transition specialist says that the gearbox is fine. So it’s just the torque converter. It seems that catching it early has saved me about £1550 I’m not having to buy a reconditioned box. 
The bill for the TC is coming in at £1500 so it’s not exactly party time, but thats a lot more palatable than the full cost.
Any update your end? 2022 BMW i4 M50. Bought Oct 2022. 10,200 miles and counting...
2014 BMW 435d convertible. Bought July 2021. 58,000 miles and counting...
2005 Discovery 3 HSE Auto. Bought Feb 2019. 169,000 miles and counting...
2009 Freelander 2 XS Manual. Bought Sep 2013. SOLD Aug 2021 (already regretted!)
https://youtube.com/channel/UCO_u_0D45x9KGfiNstzLJnw
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| 31st Mar 2019 3:15 am |
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Tringsaint
Member Since: 25 Mar 2019
Location: Tring
Posts: 20
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Hi,
Thanks for the update - is that cost for a new or recon unit?
just in the process of working through a powerful engine flush just to rule out anything related to the injectors or EGR valve. The noise is still there but did seem a bit better yesterday, so will see over the course of this week.
If its still rubbing by the end of the week then it will go back to the dealer so that he can have a tinker - first thought is to give the ATF a change as its probably not been done and see how that goes - if no change then he will have to resolve as under warranty.
the challenge is to accurately diagnose the issue tho, as the dealer (Primoris) sell a lot of discos and their view is that there are a number of potential causes of this type of noise, hence they are reluctant to simply change the TC until is definitely the TC!!
I did do the 'foot on brake and throttle at same time' test and i could reproduce the noise whilst stationary, so i know its not drive shaft related and probably not transmission per se, as nothing was moving other than the TC which would have been trying to drive the car - i suspect that the car has done a lot of short journeys in its life so of the 64k covered, there will have been lots of low speed starts, etc so the TC or at least the TC clutch plate, has probably had a fair battering.
At its a 3rd car and is my shooting truck the mileage i will do in it will be low (the surf did 7k KM in 3.5 years) and if it has to go back to the dealer for a few weeks then im fine with that as i have two other cars to use.
Just keen to get it right so that any future problems are not down to my neglecting a problem which could have been resolved under the warranty and before anything broke!
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| 31st Mar 2019 11:27 am |
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DIY Ace
Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 965
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The cost is for a brand new unit with 12 month warranty, flush and filters etc. They told me that they were going to test the oil too so I can assume that there was no contamination so no threat of early repeat of the problem. I’ll get a flush done every 60K from now on.
Interesting comment about the ATF. The atf itself would never cause a noise, but a poor atf would allow damage to something like the TC that would then cause the noise. Hence if changing the atf resolves the issue (in full or part) then don’t accept that as settlement under warranty. A change of the atf might mask the issue but it won’t fix an already broken TC bush or repair the plates etc. If anything, a change of the atf and then a reduction in noise would actually confirm that it is the TC or gearbox that is faulty. New fluid will only delay the inevitable.
Changing the atf in advance as preventative maintenance is great but changing it after a fault as developed will do nothing.
Best of luck with it, just don’t let them send you away with new atf and reduction in noise. 2022 BMW i4 M50. Bought Oct 2022. 10,200 miles and counting...
2014 BMW 435d convertible. Bought July 2021. 58,000 miles and counting...
2005 Discovery 3 HSE Auto. Bought Feb 2019. 169,000 miles and counting...
2009 Freelander 2 XS Manual. Bought Sep 2013. SOLD Aug 2021 (already regretted!)
https://youtube.com/channel/UCO_u_0D45x9KGfiNstzLJnw
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| 31st Mar 2019 5:13 pm |
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