Member Since: 29 Oct 2007
Location: devon
Posts: 6
Alternative Fuel
Hi All,
I have just upgraded to a D4 and have kept the old D3 for 'beating around' in :0).
I have a question regarding fuel. If -hypothetically speaking of course ;0) - I had an excess of Avtur and wanted to run the D3 on it, first does anyone know if this is possible? If it it is - what ratio of 2 stroke:mineral oil:diesel:avtur, would I have to mix it too - if at all?
DERV is as near to gas oil (28secs) as makes no difference
what is the difference to AVTUR ?
I looked in Wikipedia...this is what I found:Piston engine use[edit]
Jet fuel is very similar to diesel fuel, and in some cases, may be burned in diesel engines. The possibility of environmental legislation banning the use of leaded avgas, and the lack of a replacement fuel with similar performance, has left aircraft designers and pilot's organizations searching for alternative engines for use in small aircraft.[29] As a result, a few aircraft engine manufacturers, most notably Thielert and Austro Engine, have begun offering aircraft diesel engines which run on jet fuel. This technology has potential to simplify airport logistics by reducing the number of fuel types required. Jet fuel is available in most places in the world, whereas avgas is only widely available in a few countries which have a large number of general aviation aircraft. A diesel engine may also potentially be more environmentally friendly and fuel-efficient than an avgas engine. However, very few diesel aircraft engines have been certified by aviation authorities. Diesel aircraft engines are uncommon today, even though opposed-piston aviation diesel powerplants such as the Junkers Jumo 205 family had been used during the Second World War.
Jet fuel is often used in ground support vehicles at airports, instead of diesel. The United States military makes heavy use of JP-8, for instance. However, jet fuel tends to have poor lubricating ability in comparison to diesel, thereby increasing wear on fuel pumps and other related engine parts.[citation needed] Civilian vehicles tend to disallow its use, or require that an additive be mixed with the jet fuel to restore its lubricity. Jet fuel is more expensive than diesel fuel but the logistical advantages of using one fuel can offset the extra expense of its use in certain circumstances
the only thing I can think of besides its lubricity - is road fuel tax.
If HMRC & get wind of what you are using you may come unstuck...maybe like using red diesel.BREXIT - done properly.
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20th Apr 2014 11:46 am
gordons
Member Since: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Great Horwood
Posts: 191
Might be worth looking at the additives, AL11 is the antifreeze added to Avtur, could be a big issue.D3 SE MY55 [gone]
D3 HSE MY59
20th Apr 2014 12:24 pm
Ash3
Member Since: 07 Mar 2012
Location: London
Posts: 214
Hmmm interesting...jet fuel in a D3... Imagine that!! 0-60 in sub 3 seconds... I thought aviation fuel was illegal in road use and not mention the power output generated by av fuel...kinda like using F1 fuel which is highly specialised to achieve greater power output.
On another note, does anyone know if my05 D3 can run on bio diesel and would there be any harm to engine??
20th Apr 2014 2:04 pm
poleaxed
Member Since: 29 Oct 2007
Location: devon
Posts: 6
I've heard of it being used in pump duse engines but not common rail, I think the only real snag is lubricity and potential failure of the fuel pumps if you get the ratio wrong
Unfortunately I think performance is downgraded, unless of course you go the whole 9 yards and and fit twin gas turbines on the roof.....its gonna need some sound proofing mod though!!
....On another note, does anyone know if my05 D3 can run on bio diesel and would there be any harm to engine??
I believe lots of DERV's you buy have a percentage (like 5% ish)
but read your manual....it says somewhere that The 2.7 diesel engine isn't designed or built for Bio-DieselBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
20th Apr 2014 6:23 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
When I have been in a pinch I've used avtur in a D3 and given the weight of the vehicle and the driving conditions it could not have had a harder test. There was no option to add extra lubricity but if it was my own vehicle that would be my prime concern.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 27 May 2011
Location: Sticking the Ex back in the skanks bin
Posts: 2824
in the uk ALL forecourt sold diesel needs to have at least 5% bio type fuel in it.
A D3/4 should in theory be able to run on BioD.
the problem is there are so many dodgey outlets of it these days.
IMO unless you have a very good source of it then not worth the risk.
Fine in older engines. As an example PSA XUD bosch pumped engines run on everything silly i have put in them. I have a Xantia 1.9td for sale and in the past i have run these on everything from hydraulic fluid to the old engine oil from a service. they always ran and never faultered. Cold starts can be an issue at really low temps but a mix with some winter diesel, say 5-10% of the fuel tank in winter Dino should do it.
There are kits out there as well known as two tank kits. again something worth reading up on if you wanted.
you could possibly get away with mixing a small percentage upto 50% with normal diesel but be aware it could coke up injectors and such as its designed to burn much hotter in aviation use and god knows what the antifreeze could do to automotive components like the softer rubbers and seals...FFRR Owner, very nearly became a D3 owner
Test piloted a new D4 XS SDV6.. Gone and being forgotten i hope!!
D4 HSE 10MY
D4 XS 11MY
SSRR Destroyer *2
21st Apr 2014 12:00 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Avtur is not designed to burn a hotter temps than diesel; indeed they share the same auto ignition temperature.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 27 May 2011
Location: Sticking the Ex back in the skanks bin
Posts: 2824
The basic stuff may do but what do the additives do to the compression ignition range?
It's also about how the flame front progresses that would affect performance as well.
The bonus I guess of using it would be that it wouldn't gel as easily as diesel as it's temperature operating window is much much lower.FFRR Owner, very nearly became a D3 owner
Test piloted a new D4 XS SDV6.. Gone and being forgotten i hope!!
D4 HSE 10MY
D4 XS 11MY
SSRR Destroyer *2
I worked on a air base back in the 80's and the airforce (I won't say it was Upper Heyford, in case someone guesses the country of residence )
Anyway, they tried to run the comma vans on neat Avtur. Very quickly they had a fleet of them very badly smoking
I believe they did mix it once they had sorted the engines out - though no idea of the proportions.
I wouldn't entertain the thought of running anything but forecourt diesel in my D3.Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
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