bigD
Member Since: 29 Apr 2008
Location: westmidlands
Posts: 190
  
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| b+e licence/towing tin tent |
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i have a b+e licence so i have no problem towing my tin tent
but a friend who goes with us does not have a b+e licence
but has the same van as us
now i know that if i dident have a b+e licence i wouldent
be able to tow the van i have but cant find anything on the net
that actualy says wot law is being broken and wot penalty he would face
if caught
can any one shed any light on this
regards bigd
ps friend seams to think he is not breaking any law
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 25th Jan 2010 11:18 pm |
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Rich71
Member Since: 21 Feb 2009
Location: Hitchin
Posts: 81
 
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I'm ready to be corrected but I'm sure that if your mate has had his licence a few years he's ok. It was a rule introduced recently for new drivers I think.
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| 25th Jan 2010 11:21 pm |
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18573
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Driving otherwise than in accordance with his licence? Consequently no insurance etc.
If his licence was first issued before 1997 he will have automatic grandfather rights for B+E. 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know!
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| 25th Jan 2010 11:22 pm |
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Tom W
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: peterborough
Posts: 208
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Penalty wise,could be 9 points and £900 fine 
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| 26th Jan 2010 4:33 am |
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Russell
Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
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what car does he tow with might get underthe gross weight.  MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
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| 26th Jan 2010 7:44 am |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
 
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http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drive...DG_4022564
some info here. Duncan
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If I'd known I was going to be so thirsty this morning I'd have drunk more beer last night.
FFRR Autobiography 4.4 SDV8 MY17
D4 HSE MY13 SOLD
FFRR 3.6 Vogue TDV8 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D4 SE TECH MY15 SOLD
D4 XS MY12 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D3 HSE MY06 - Re-Cycled Worldwide
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| 26th Jan 2010 8:17 am |
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bigD
Member Since: 29 Apr 2008
Location: westmidlands
Posts: 190
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ok info i have is he is 26 years old and drives a d3
caravan is a bailey and the weights are
mass in running order 826kg
maximum technically permissible laden mass 1109kg
maximum user payload 247kg
essential habitation equipment 73kg
is this any more help
regards bigd
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| 26th Jan 2010 6:12 pm |
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J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
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the permissible laden mass of the tintent and the permissible laden mass of the discovery must come to less than 3500KG. which it doesn't.
so he needs a trailer license IMO.
 2014 D4 XS
2005 D3 SE - Gone
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| 26th Jan 2010 6:45 pm |
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shanners
Member Since: 04 Oct 2008
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 309
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Hiya Guys, we get a lot of enquiries of this nature and have also found information relating to the B+E Category not very forthcoming.
As a result, we have transferred all of the relevant information to our website and put it all in Plain English. Just click on the sponsors link above.
As it stands at the moment, if you passed your standard Cat (B) Car test after 1997 then you will no longer have 'Implied' or 'Grandfather' rights to tow a trailer in excess of 750 kgs
In order to do this you must take and pass a seperate DSA test to drive a combination of this category.
If the combined weight of both trailer and towing vehicle exceeds 3.5 tonnes then it is then classed as a medium goods vehicle Cat (C).
Be aware that VOSA and the Police are using ANPR to routinely stop drivers and are issuing fines of up to a thousand pounds with 9 penalty points.
If you cause an employee to use such a combination unlicensed, then Police will not only consider prosecuting the driver for having no insurance, but also the company MD under 'Use, Cause, Permit' Legislation.
As mentioned before, if the entire outfit is in excess of 3.5 tonnes then it will be classed as a medium goods vehicle and if used for the purposes of work will require a Tacho.
Shanners
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| 26th Jan 2010 10:21 pm |
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character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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sorry beg to disagree, some of what you are quoting relates to using the vehicle "commercially" for hire and reward. Vosa do not have powers over private individual using their vehicle for non commercial activities, whereas the police do under the Road Traffic Act likewise the police are the ones who would proceed with a potential legal action.
That said, the total mass of the combination does excludes the towing vehicle kerb weights due to the D3 being catagorised as a "dual purpose vehicle" under Construction & Use/ Road Traffic Act and that the caravan/trailer is being used for non-commercial activities.
The restriction on the Gross Train Weight for B+E is 7000kg (in the UK), C1+E is 8250kg (107 restriction) under grandfather rights in any commercial situation. However on a B+E you can have a trailer/caravan of the type described so long as it falls beneath 1500kg unladdened weight in the case of non commercial or 1020kg in the case of "commercial activities" (although vosa will allow you to 1500kg in the case of commercial because our rules on 1020kg is considered anti-competitive within the EU).
I agree that the 26 year old driver does need to have passed his towing test and there's nothing to say he has'nt, but not a C catagory for the reasons mentioned.
On the point of tacho, would'nt apply even if he had a 3.5ton van towing a caravan/trailer up to 3.5tons (assuming he has C1+E) so long as he could demonstrate that its being used for domestic/personal use the only thing he would have to be aware in such a case is that the caravan/trailer could not be anymore than 7m L x 7'6 W or wider subject to the trailer/caravan being towed not exceeding the width of the towing vehicle by any greater that 12" on either side, with the max train length being no more than 16.5 m 
Last edited by character on 26th Jan 2010 11:50 pm. Edited 4 times in total
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| 26th Jan 2010 11:12 pm |
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TazDaz
Member Since: 07 May 2007
Location: South East Essex
Posts: 2858
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bigD wrote:ok info i have is he is 26 years old and drives a d3
caravan is a bailey and the weights are
mass in running order 826kg
maximum technically permissible laden mass 1109kg
maximum user payload 247kg
essential habitation equipment 73kg
bigD - your friend definately needs to have a B+E licence to tow that outfit with a D3 as he must have passed his test after 1977.
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| 26th Jan 2010 11:28 pm |
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paulJ1
Member Since: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Stewarton, Scotland
Posts: 268
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The caravan club, and the camping and caravan club both have technical leaflets on this.
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/practical-adv...nce-to-tow
Below is an extract... as character said, rules for commercial use are very different !
QI passed my driving test in 2000 and am now intending to tow a caravan. However, I hear there are towing restrictions for those who passed after a certain date. If so, when were the changes implemented, what are my current driving/towing entitlements with my B licence and how will these be affected if I take the additional test?
A A person who passed their test on or after 1 January 1997 may drive:
a) Towed outfits – driver restricted to a combined MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) of 3500kg and the trailer MAM must not exceed the unladen (kerb) weight of the towing vehicle (85% ratio remains strongly
recommended). If this MAM is to be exceeded, an E Test pass is required.
b) Rigid motor caravans without trailer – driver restricted to a MAM of 3500kg until obtaining a pass of the LGV Light Goods Vehicles) test, after which the driver is qualified to 7500kg MAM.
c) Rigid motor caravan towing trailer – provided the trailer does not exceed 750kg and the combined MAM does not exceed 4250kg, no further test is required for this type of outfit. However, if the trailer MAM exceeds 750kg
then a) applies for a vehicle less than 3500kg. Otherwise an LGV test plus an E test is needed.
Got our Disco... Love it.....
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| 26th Jan 2010 11:51 pm |
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character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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paul, just a small point on the tech side of vehicle mass of 4250kg, this does not apply in the UK, that's the new catagory of licence to be known as B96 or B69 coming out post Jan 2011 under the third amendment of licence catagories EU 2006 here, but current in other EU countries now.
See the consultation page of the DFT website on my thread above.
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| 26th Jan 2010 11:59 pm |
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