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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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AndrewS wrote:I have a 110 and a D3
   21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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 15th Nov 2006 10:24 pm |
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Mike
Member Since: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Doncaster UK
Posts: 184
 
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this will be in addition to the D3, I wouldnt sell this for anything else, I just can't even imagine another vehicle to replace the D3 with yet.
Just fancy something that I won't worry with when I'm going down some bramble strewn green lane. Scraping branches on the side of my lovely D3 has gotta be one of the worst sounds I've ever heard.
Maybe I just need to improve my off roading skills and stick with the D3 for all occasions.
Besides I think a D3 AND a fully kigtted out 90 would look great on the driveway ha ha '06 D3 HSE
Zambezi with Alpaca, F & R light guards, side steps, privacy glass, MTR's, rear access ladder, roof bars, RAI, walnut trim and a few other little bits and bobs
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| 16th Nov 2006 10:51 am |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
  
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If you can afford it have both. I use the Defender for serious offroading (mainly in deep mud and clay) where you dont mind loosing an indicator , denting a wing getting the odd tree branch poke through a closed window etc. I wouldnt want to do that in a £40K D3.
I paid £1500 for my 90, then another 4K to prepare it for serious offroad(used parts etc), that included buying an stripping the 4.2 engine etc, all road legal.
although myD3 is partly off-road prep'd, I dont attempt the same terrain that I do in the Defender often, I just takes too long to clean, and I'm not convinced I have actually got the liquid clay out from all the hard to get places.
And they do look cool with both parked on the drive, much to the disgust of my Tree Hugger neighbours !!! 
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| 16th Nov 2006 11:43 am |
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CFB
Member Since: 02 Dec 2005
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posts: 6100
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I have just gone through a similar 'decision'. Having given the D3 some serious hammer at an off-road session at the weekend and been showed up by RRC's, D1's and modified Suzukis, I have decided that I need something else for this kind of play. The D3 is very capable in some situations where ETC is needed but hampered by ground clearance and sheer bulk/weight. It is also very easy to damage the trim, I managed to break two mudflaps, scratch the paintwork and scrape a lot of the black trim as well as scuffing the alloys (off-road set so not too worried). A bit of TLC has restored much of the damage but if I did this regularly it would soon start to look a mess.
So I though about an off-road toy and settled for a Disco 1, they are a lot cheaper than a Defender, more comfortable, nearly as capable when lifted and modified and there loads of accessories available. I paid £750 for a '93 V8 Auto and will probably put another £1500 into it to turn it into a rreally competent off-roader that I don't mind scratching or scraping. 2020 BMW X1 18d XDrive X-Line Auto
Last edited by CFB on 16th Nov 2006 3:54 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 16th Nov 2006 2:25 pm |
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Alex E
Holy Bratwurst!
Member Since: 22 Mar 2006
Location: Club Tropicana (the drink's aren't free)
Posts: 869
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cotefarmboy wrote:
So I though about an off-road toy and settled for a Disco 1, they are a lot cheaper than a Defender, more comfortable, nearly as capable when lifted and mofidied and there loads of accessories available. I paid £750 for a '93 V8 Auto and will probably put another £1500 into it to turn it into a rreally competent off-roader that I don't mind scratching or scraping.
what a brillant idea
if anyone else wants to have a brilliant idea like cotefarmboy mine is still for sale 8) reduced price too!
95 V8, 300series, auto, 2"lift snorkle, KC's etc etc. i wont bore you with the details but PM me if your interested. I'm Powered by........Diesel 
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| 16th Nov 2006 3:41 pm |
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steve_d3
Member Since: 13 Nov 2006
Location: South Africa
Posts: 32
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Very interesting discusion..actually I was thinking about that today..suppossing you had a D3 and a Defender...and you were planning a trek in excess of 3000km , alsort of conditions, plenty of real deserts etc..I mean real deserts, possibly no roads...which would you pick? a D3 or a Defender?
My own scientific training and Sod's Law would indicate the more complex a system is the more its prone to breakdown..regardles of whether its a vehicle or whatever..The D3 is much more complex then the defender and has many more interdependent parts, systems,software,air springs, lotsof electronics, and not just the gadgets, but electronics to run all these complex parts..so the probability of a breakdown is much higher then the defender...how much?..I wouldnt like to guess..high chance of a breakdown especially when you are talking about very very long distances and you are putting the vehicle under extreme stress ..
I was actually thinking of taking a D3 and a Defender on these very long rally type of trips ... so if the D3 breaksdown, you either tow it away to the nearest collection point, and if you cant , you have to dump it and cut your losses and run...I dont think you can put in an insurance claim for riding a D3 1000s of km into the desert...
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| 16th Nov 2006 3:41 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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see your point, but...
Having just got back from a 4500 mile round trip (granted, most of it was on tarmac of varying quality) to the @rse end of Morocco and back, not one of the D3's suffered any electrical or mechanical failure, OK, a few reboots were required when traversing corrugated sections but this was entirely due to the suspension being unable to achieve any sort of level reference.
The two vehicles that did suffer mechanical failures were a 130 (clutch & flywheel) and a 110 (rear propshaft) although to be fair both could have probably been avoided...
Until a hindsight pack is available for offroad driving, i'd say that the D3 is the better beast in terms of a mixture of ability, comfort and mechanical sturdiness in standard form
IF we had made better use of the support vehicles then the day-to-day weight of the D3's could have been reduced further, thereby enhancing their performance in the sand sections
As I said, until a hindsight pack becomes available... 
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| 16th Nov 2006 3:54 pm |
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steve_d3
Member Since: 13 Nov 2006
Location: South Africa
Posts: 32
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thanks for the reply..I did see the Moroccan expedition photos..It seems it was well organised and very nice at that too...just a quick question, were you able to get insurance for this trip...and also what I am having in mind is mainly off road trekking over very long distances .
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| 16th Nov 2006 4:10 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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yes.... sort of 
Got an insurance green card OK for Morocco, seeing as most of the 'roads' in the sandy bits are just where the vehicle in front has been, it shouldn't be a problem - I drove across the Namib in the early 90's ( year, not the Defender ) and just used 'normal' insurance for the same reasons, never had to claim though and I suspect that if you did claim and it appeared to be anything other than transiting from one place to another, then there may be probing questions and requests for supporting photographs.
Another issue could be any stickers on the vehicle when crossing national borders, indicating, or causing the locals to think that you are participants in an organised event (we didn't apply any stickers until well inside Morocco)
The Moroccans were very interested as to why (and where) six vehicles were travelling together although smaller groups shouldn't be a problem
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| 16th Nov 2006 4:20 pm |
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Lakeland Land Rover
Member Since: 06 Oct 2006
Location: Torver, Coniston
Posts: 462
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i was told a great way to discribe the differences of D3 and Defenders
D3 = Wife
Defender = Mistress
the D3 is the one you have to live with every day you have a few opportunities to have a play every now and again but you don't realy want to spoil or break it. where as a defender you would strugle to live with every day but you can have a go when you want, you can give it a good hard bang and have it as dirty as you like! Lakeland Land Rover
The Garage,
Torver,
Coniston,
Cumbria,
LA21 8BJ
Tel: 015394 41888
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| 16th Nov 2006 7:40 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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Steve D3 - to answer your PM for the benefit of anyone else following this...
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The suspension system has four height sensors - one on each suspension wishbone assembly. These send a variable voltage to the control unit for the suspension, the voltage being dependent upon the height. each corner has a target height for the three (controllable) modes and hence a corresponding target voltage. The suspension system will attempt to keep the suspension at the target height +/- the programmed tolerance as much as possible by controlling the three shuttle valves to add or vent compressed air, if it is unable to do so for (I think) three successive cycles, it assumes that the inputs from one or more height sensors is implausible and ceases to attempt to correct the height. It does this to protect the suspension components and prevent compressor overheat from increased duty cycle, it also notifies the driver by flagging a transient suspension general fault - this can be cleared on a restart, hence the reboots whilst crossing corrugations for extended periods at relatively high speeds (25-40MPH+)
The hindsight pack was my attempt at humour - 'if we knew it was going to break something, we'd have done it differently' - sorry 
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| 16th Nov 2006 9:12 pm |
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steve_d3
Member Since: 13 Nov 2006
Location: South Africa
Posts: 32
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gottya thanks...
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| 16th Nov 2006 9:32 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10442
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So I took a D3 and a 110 Defender into Morocco.
Q:- What would I take next time
A:- A D3 and a 110 Defender
The Defender can cope with just about anything thats thrown at it (apart from BIG rocks). The D3 has to be nursed everywhere. If you drive carefully the D3 will perform. If you don't then you will spend a lot of time fixing things.
For instance. We drove carefully and returned from Morocco with the same tyres we left with on both vehicles, unlike other teams.
At the end of the day its all down to understanding what you are driving and using it to its full potential.
I know our 110 failed on a few obstacles, however the 110 was put places that the D3s were not, sometimes it failed sometimes performed. I must add the sections that it did fail on were the ones that the D3s never even attempted.
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| 18th Nov 2006 12:25 am |
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steve_d3
Member Since: 13 Nov 2006
Location: South Africa
Posts: 32
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andrew..it would be very usefull if you put your experience in a full report...(if you have time)
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| 18th Nov 2006 5:28 am |
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