Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2718
  
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So, does this mean a small building contractor or landscape gardner will now need an Operators licence to tow a compressor, mini digger, etc?
Nasher. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
Last edited by Nasher on 7th Oct 2011 11:02 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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 7th Oct 2011 9:12 pm |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
  
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in short YES or face a £5000 fine and a prohibition order at the roadside with the vehicles impounded 
BTW unless you can prove that your vehicles are on constant "standby" for emergency repairs like the utility companies/roadworks vehicles (even though the driver parks it on his driveway or goes shopping in it). 
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| 7th Oct 2011 9:52 pm |
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kingofthesparks
Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near Northampton m1 Watford gap
Posts: 429
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Nasher wrote:So, does this mean a small building contractor or landscape gardner will now need an Operators liscence to tow a compressor, mini digger, etc?
Nasher.
is there not a exemption if its tools only ?
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| 7th Oct 2011 10:04 pm |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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Unnecessary quote removed
no as its now going to be based upon the train weight of the towing vehicle and its trailer together, therefore if over 3500KG GTW you need a O-licence have it be a "restricted" one for your own tools/equipment etc. 
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| 7th Oct 2011 10:40 pm |
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THFC
Member Since: 01 Sep 2010
Location: Biggin Hill
Posts: 743
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I suppose that means the same for me, Sprinter and catering trailer?? (Hot dogs will be going up in price) PRIDE OF NORTH LONDON
AUDERE-EST-FACERE
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| 7th Oct 2011 11:33 pm |
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dantheman
Member Since: 12 Mar 2010
Location: Essex
Posts: 1728
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Does the tacho rule still aply for occasional use close to home? Or are we gonna need a tacho as well as an o licence? Think it will be easy money if they sit outside a builders merchant in the mornings then. 
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| 8th Oct 2011 12:22 am |
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Monkeyhanger
Member Since: 21 Oct 2005
Location: Hartlepool
Posts: 65
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Whilst I object to conforming to any rules unless I have to I'm going to sit on the fence here and stir a bit.
The Operators licence was introduced for two reasons. Not only to regulate and control those who operate vehicles for a business but the other side is to safeguard the jobs and employment of those legitimately employed in the industry.
I spoke to a friend who runs a haulage company in the North of Scotland who said their industry has been decimated since the introduction of JCB tractors which are capable of travelling more than 40mph and tow great loads. Farmers are using them to tow trailers with heavy plant on, work that would have been done by his own and other's companies and all unregulated by the "O" licence not to mention rebated fuel. They just can't compete.
If you are going to the expense of using a D3 or 4 to tow a trailer and operate as a business then you are clearly a genuine business operator and not the type of person they are after here, more those who are using clapped out vans and trailers, cash in hand, paying no taxes and with little concern to others. However to be fair they have to apply the same rules to everyone.
Whilst you have my sympathy I can see the other side of the coin and think if you are a genuine operator then this will help to insure that your future is protected from those who flaunt the law and nick your trade by undercutting costs.
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| 8th Oct 2011 10:12 am |
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Monkeyhanger
Member Since: 21 Oct 2005
Location: Hartlepool
Posts: 65
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dantheman wrote:Does the tacho rule still aply for occasional use close to home? Or are we gonna need a tacho as well as an o licence? Think it will be easy money if they sit outside a builders merchant in the mornings then.
My interpretation was "carrying goods for hire or reward". Also the Carrying was to be the main use of the vehicle and trailer. As you only tow a trailer it is like towing equipment or engineering plant and so in my humble opinion you would not need an O licence (but don't quote me on it, I'm not up to date with legislation)
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| 8th Oct 2011 10:16 am |
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ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1625
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The issue around Fastracs is a big one for the haulage industry, as are issues around employment of Transport Managers. I think the removal of the trailer exemption is one of those classic bits of bureaucratic/halfwitted tidying up of legislation by deskbound idiots who haven't a clue about what the effects will be. 
I'm not aware the trailer exemption is causing any major compliance issues but they love closing loopholes, usually as they can't remember why it was there to start with.
Come the revolution I wouldn't want to be a banker, politican or Eurocrat! Tony
Club RLD Wheel Protector & Sump Guard
Club 4x4 Info activated
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| 8th Oct 2011 10:33 am |
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stvmor
Member Since: 21 Mar 2008
Location: Hove East Sussex
Posts: 145
 
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Having read all the replys i have to admit i am totally confused.
I occasionally tow an IW LM147 which has an ULW of 775kg and according to the manual the EEC kerb weight of the D3 is
2494-2718kg. Taking the highest this gives me a 'train weight' of 3493kg if i understand correctly. So, does this mean i would be exempt from the O licence? If I need the licence then I reckon I will be open to offers for the trailer as, having down loaded the 36pages of the application form I realise my life is too short to be bothered.
I would not describe myself as an operator, I deliver our own manufactured joinery locally to sites two or three times a month. If anybody with more wit than I have could give me an answer i would be most grateful. Stvmor
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| 8th Oct 2011 10:40 am |
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Monkeyhanger
Member Since: 21 Oct 2005
Location: Hartlepool
Posts: 65
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stvmor wrote:Having read all the replys i have to admit i am totally confused.
I occasionally tow an IW LM147 which has an ULW of 775kg and according to the manual the EEC kerb weight of the D3 is
2494-2718kg. Taking the highest this gives me a 'train weight' of 3493kg if i understand correctly. So, does this mean i would be exempt from the O licence? If I need the licence then I reckon I will be open to offers for the trailer as, having down loaded the 36pages of the application form I realise my life is too short to be bothered.
I would not describe myself as an operator, I deliver our own manufactured joinery locally to sites two or three times a month. If anybody with more wit than I have could give me an answer i would be most grateful.
Stvmor. Just noticed your profile states you are on The Isle of Man. Do the EEC laws apply in your neck of the woods and do VOSA operate there?
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| 8th Oct 2011 11:09 am |
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Navigator
Member Since: 17 Mar 2010
Location: Stay at Home. One of the lives you save could be your own.
Posts: 5109
 
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Not much to do with this issue makes any sense so I'll add a bit more. Where does this put people who volunteer with 4x4 Response groups and might well in the past have towed a trailer to help in an emergency - such as distributing bottled water during an interuption to the public water supply? A vaccine does not stop you catching a virus, or passing it on, or getting ill from it, really ill. It does reduce the likelyhood of you dying when really, really ill. Stay Alive - KEEP AWAY FROM PEOPLE.
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| 8th Oct 2011 11:15 am |
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Monkeyhanger
Member Since: 21 Oct 2005
Location: Hartlepool
Posts: 65
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Monkeyhanger wrote:stvmor wrote:Having read all the replys i have to admit i am totally confused.
I occasionally tow an IW LM147 which has an ULW of 775kg and according to the manual the EEC kerb weight of the D3 is
2494-2718kg. Taking the highest this gives me a 'train weight' of 3493kg if i understand correctly. So, does this mean i would be exempt from the O licence? If I need the licence then I reckon I will be open to offers for the trailer as, having down loaded the 36pages of the application form I realise my life is too short to be bothered.
I would not describe myself as an operator, I deliver our own manufactured joinery locally to sites two or three times a month. If anybody with more wit than I have could give me an answer i would be most grateful.
Stvmor. Just noticed your profile states you are on The Isle of Man. Do the EEC laws apply in your neck of the woods and do VOSA operate there?
Stvmor. Just read up a bit on the net, You show the Manx Flag on your profile and if that's where you are then you're not part of the UK or the EEC but are a UK Dependancy and as such have certain rights. It would take too long to establish what does and doesn't apply to you so I'll butt out and leave it to someone with better local knowledge to answer your last question.
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| 8th Oct 2011 11:18 am |
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Monkeyhanger
Member Since: 21 Oct 2005
Location: Hartlepool
Posts: 65
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Navigator wrote:Not much to do with this issue makes any sense so I'll add a bit more. Where does this put people who volunteer with 4x4 Response groups and might well in the past have towed a trailer to help in an emergency - such as distributing bottled water during an interuption to the public water supply?
No problem, not for hire or reward. End of story.
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| 8th Oct 2011 11:19 am |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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Monkeyhanger wrote:dantheman wrote:Does the tacho rule still aply for occasional use close to home? Or are we gonna need a tacho as well as an o licence? Think it will be easy money if they sit outside a builders merchant in the mornings then.
My interpretation was "carrying goods for hire or reward". Also the Carrying was to be the main use of the vehicle and trailer. As you only tow a trailer it is like towing equipment or engineering plant and so in my humble opinion you would not need an O licence (but don't quote me on it, I'm not up to date with legislation)
You'll need an O licence due to the weights involved, the issue of what you might do with that load is then down to the style of o licence, ie restricted is for your own goods, standard & eu is for everyone else 
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| 8th Oct 2011 11:20 am |
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