Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50966
VOSA chap wrote:
, VOSA have begun the process of informing affected operators of the change in the law, but we would not expect them to take enforcement action until 6 months after the Regulation enters into force.
DG wrote:
Whatever the interpretations there is likely to be a moratorium on prosecutions for a period of 6 months or so while the regs bed in ...during this time there would be words of advice given except in severe cases or perhaps where there has been a serious RTC.
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
A HOLLOW VICTORY my Lord
What about the COMPLETE TURN AROUND as to whether a D3 is or is not liable to a OL, by the same guy who had advised that it was DPV, he has today said yes it does
Just been looking through the documents posted under the link in his reply. BTW this link is headed up "Public Consultation" with a) only three weeks for those it may effect to write in b) date for all replies to be received by 22/11/11
24th Nov 2011 1:26 am
Ian G
Member Since: 18 Aug 2011
Location: Merseyside
Posts: 71
Small trailer exemption while carrying a classic car, good one
24th Nov 2011 2:49 pm
gloucester1
Member Since: 16 Nov 2011
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 3
reply to FRAPP.
You say that there is no mention of the 2040 kg ,well if you read it again as i said ,it says AS EXISTING LEGISLATION, if you look at the existing legislation it tells you 2040kg.
We have now got our fleet of disco's and trailers on our o licence, and 12 weekly checks in place.
24th Nov 2011 10:24 pm
Ian G
Member Since: 18 Aug 2011
Location: Merseyside
Posts: 71
The VOSA guy had previously suggested that that limit didn't apply though, if you read some of his previous replies he basically says the legislation is old and the figure of 2040kg is outdated.
I fully agree, based on that you should O licence them, but VOSA haven't historically shared that interpretation of their own legislation.
24th Nov 2011 10:28 pm
Frapp
Member Since: 19 Dec 2008
Location: Norff Zummerzet
Posts: 1655
gloucester1 wrote:
We have now got our fleet of disco's and trailers on our o licence, and 12 weekly checks in place.
The Trailers do not need to be on the O Licence.
If you have been told otherwise, by VOSA, I guess that is only one persons interpretation of the law and from what has been posted in response from VOSA on here, they dont know, as they change their angle like a weathervane.
It has an intresting excusion on page 17
ANNEX 1: CLASSES OF VEHICLES FOR WHICH A
LICENCE IS NOT REQUIRED
1. Any tractor as defined in paragraph 4(3) of Part IV of Schedule 1 to the Vehicle
Excise and Registration Act 1994 (as originally enacted) while being used for one or
more of the purposes specified in Part II of this Schedule.
2. A dual-purpose vehicle and any trailer drawn by it.
It does go on and list up to 29 excusions, but I thought the point 2 was the relavant one.
Regards
LesSiberian Silver, Ebony Leather, Commercial Con Pack, Bright Pack, Lux Pack, Sig Lights, suround Cameras, Tow Pack, Arm Rests pack, Runner Boards, etc, ect.
25th Nov 2011 9:42 pm
sj9011
Member Since: 04 Jun 2011
Location: Southampton
Posts: 356
As i read it as well it says "Dual Purpose vehicles do not require a licence"
Am i missing something
26th Nov 2011 12:28 pm
character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
Frapp, the views of a trailer manufacturer should NOT be relied upon given that they do not relate to "forthcoming" changes but as it says " at the moment "
Tell yer what this is where the confusion lies, yer got one guy at DofT saying yes it does, then the guidance available for public consumption SAYING NO FOR A DUAL PURPOSE VEHICLE BUT NOT SAYING A DUAL PURPOSE VEHICLE USED FOR HIRE OR REWARD
Then as it says here on the thread Senior Traffic Commissioner/Impounding/page 17 no yer don't if its a "dual purpose vehicle" as defined by The Construction & Use Regulations 1986
Along with last week a work associate deliberately drove in to the VOSA station at M6 Stafford with his D3 Passenger Land Rover with trailer attached used for hire and reward and being told NO YER DONT!!
Looking back, the problem in its interpretation comes when you consider that there are THREE types of Operators Licences, namely "Restricted, Standard and European". The former relates to the usuage for "personal" use, the second and third relate to any form of business usage whether direcly or indirectly hire or reward.
Its right to take the view that a D3 is a "dual purpose" vehicle, but is it right to assume that using it in a "business" capacity does not breach The Goods Vehicle (Licencing) Act 1995, guess we will never know until after 4th Dec 2011
26th Nov 2011 1:05 pm
Frapp
Member Since: 19 Dec 2008
Location: Norff Zummerzet
Posts: 1655
character wrote:
guess we will never know until after 4th Dec 2011
We wont know then either
Drive on Guvnor, Full speed ahead Member of the carrot crank club
Embarrassingly in for the 2nd round, bought another two
D3 Jack Russell carrier
D4 Landmark for towing duties
26th Nov 2011 4:49 pm
Lesb
Member Since: 21 Oct 2011
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 12
It has an intresting excusion on page 17
ANNEX 1: CLASSES OF VEHICLES FOR WHICH A
LICENCE IS NOT REQUIRED
1. Any tractor as defined in paragraph 4(3) of Part IV of Schedule 1 to the Vehicle
Excise and Registration Act 1994 (as originally enacted) while being used for one or
more of the purposes specified in Part II of this Schedule.
2. A dual-purpose vehicle and any trailer drawn by it.
It does go on and list up to 29 excusions, but I thought the point 2 was the relavant one.
Regards
Les
This from the actual consulation document,
This document is issued pursuant to section 4C of the Public Passenger
Vehicles Act 1981 (as amended). It has been the subject of public
consultation.
Commencement: 4.12.11
So if this is the latest document and has been subject to "Public Consultation" due to be implemented on the 4th December, then surely the Annex 1 Exclusions on it must be valid.
I read it that any dual purpose (4x4's ETC) vehicle and any trailer drawn by it, are excluded from requiring an Operators licence of any kind.
LesSiberian Silver, Ebony Leather, Commercial Con Pack, Bright Pack, Lux Pack, Sig Lights, suround Cameras, Tow Pack, Arm Rests pack, Runner Boards, etc, ect.
26th Nov 2011 5:11 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
I thought the debate centred on the D3 being too heavy to count as dual-purpose rather than the dual-purpose exemption existing or not?Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 04 Jun 2011
Location: Southampton
Posts: 356
Last time I checked a disco was less than 3.5t excluding trailer that is the reg
26th Nov 2011 5:52 pm
Lesb
Member Since: 21 Oct 2011
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 12
Weight is not mentioned in the Annex, just refers to the "Dual Purpose Vehicle"
It is just ,
CLASSES OF VEHICLES FOR WHICH A
LICENCE IS NOT REQUIRED
and Point 2 is Dual Purpose vehicle.
Does not go into weights so then it must be as "Amended" like the document said.
LesSiberian Silver, Ebony Leather, Commercial Con Pack, Bright Pack, Lux Pack, Sig Lights, suround Cameras, Tow Pack, Arm Rests pack, Runner Boards, etc, ect.
26th Nov 2011 5:54 pm
grzesiul
Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6294
Quote:
Im getting properly Censored off with this bull Censored !! I lose track of how many slovak, pole, lithuania wrecks hurtling around and you can put your last euro on it they dont get touched as the VOSA nazis cant trace them.
So its punish the dumb Censored who stick to the rules.
Censored .
Great heads up Matt.
bigdave
I have only driven D3 since living in UK and besides not so many wreck in Poland itself as most of the cars there been stolen in Germany right so in pretty good shape pal
cheers
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This document is issued pursuant to section 4C of the Public Passenger
