character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
  
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TBH he's only able to work within the "policy decision " of VOSA, the issue will come if you then get pulled by The Police as it will be up to the descretion of that forces Chief Constable and the CPS as to whether to prosecute given that Construction & Use 1986 legislation does specifically mention that a "dual purpose vehicle" should have a kerb weight of no more than 2040kg. 
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 18th Oct 2011 10:12 pm |
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stvmor
Member Since: 21 Mar 2008
Location: Hove East Sussex
Posts: 145
 
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character wrote:If you read the pages above you'll see his reply is already posted 
BTW please don't bombard Chris from VOSA with enquiries that have already been covered in the previous pages, he's a very busy chap 
Mods can yer take the contact details details for Chris from Vosa off the above posting as I'm sure he would be a bit annoyed to hear that his reply was posted without his knowledge when members phone him to say " hi I saw your letter on disco3.co.uk etc" 
He was not bombarded by me. if you read my post, this was forwarded from Ifor Williams to me who appeared to have been unaware of the situation and asked vosa for clarification. Apologies for telephone numbers, missed that. His reply was public knowledge once it was forwarded to me IMO. Stvmor
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| 19th Oct 2011 7:17 am |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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I think yer got the wrong end of the stick, I meant other readers of the thread who will find the same answers already posted
"his reply was public knowledge IMO " yes and already posted a few pages before so little need to add it at all 
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| 19th Oct 2011 11:54 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50966
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This could go around in circles for sometime until the legislation is tested and can then be viewed from the point of case law rather than what is quite clearly a bunch of ambiguos interpretations from VOSA
Character ...I think you should put yourself forward as the chief tester  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 19th Oct 2011 12:08 pm |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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just a quick update with the dealine soon upon us..
Dear Steve
You mentioned in our last communication that "we would be shortly laying down the law that brings the 1995 Act in line with the EU Law". I wondered whether there was any update to this position and in particular the likelyhood of a "transitional" period from 4th Dec 2011 to allow those effected to apply given the changes in particular to demonstrate "Financial Standing" in the new method of an undertaking?
I look forward to hearing from your soon
Matthew C P James
ANSWER
Mr James,
We have now laid the implementing legislation in Parliament, so the new requirements will come into force on 4 December.
The application of the financial standing requirement is a matter for the Traffic Commissioners, who will shortly publish revised guidance on how the financial standing requirement should be met under the new Regulation.
Regards
Steve Blackmore
Operator Licensing and Roadworthiness Division
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| 12th Nov 2011 6:45 pm |
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gloucester1
Member Since: 16 Nov 2011
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 3
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I have just spoken to VOSA about towing for hire or reward and the have told me that a land rover is classed as dual purpose and still exempt from the regulations, as they were before, but cant find out if they are classing a commercial Disco as dual purpose, or it has to have seats in the back as a car. Will this mean that a double cab pick up be exempt ?
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| 16th Nov 2011 6:22 pm |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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IMO I think it would be down to what it might say on the V5C reg document as far as catagory of vehicle ie "Goods Vehicle" or otherwise. Mine is a 5 seater base M1 class passenger vehicle. Given that the new regs directly comes under "The Good Vehicle (Licensing) Act 1995" I would hesitate as to whether it is a DPV given that its RFL would be a "goods vehicle "
With the rather large fine of £5k is you dont have one where yer need one, I would seek WRITTEN confirmation for VOSA to be sure 
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| 16th Nov 2011 11:40 pm |
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devonchilliman
Member Since: 03 Nov 2008
Location: Devon
Posts: 5224
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WOO HOO .....been watching this thread with interest
Thanks character ,for all your input Www.devonchilliman.co.uk
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| 23rd Nov 2011 10:25 am |
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leeds
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4312
 
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The biggest definition of a commercial vehicle is taxation class. M1 = car, N1 = commercial
N1 is lower tax bracket.
Commercial, i.e. Defender USW N1 tax class.
A commercial you can claim VAT back, a car you can not.
A commercial has opaque panels in the back and no seats.
Dependent on type of vehicle you can change taxation class by changing windows/seats
Brendan
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| 23rd Nov 2011 10:47 am |
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bigdave
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 9869
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So to conclude a bit on this excellent thread.
IF i hitch up my small camping type trailer and fill it with my customers parcels i am not going to get into trouble?
Or (as usual) have i got the wrong end of the stick?
All things shipping, storage, transport. UK and worldwide.
E-mail [email protected]
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| 23rd Nov 2011 11:21 am |
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gloucester1
Member Since: 16 Nov 2011
Location: gloucestershire
Posts: 3
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I have had a meeting with VOSA and a DUAL PURPOSE vehicle as is mentioned in the link on here for horse boxes is as it states ,
A dual purpose vehicle and any trailer drawn by it, is identified as being exempt from operator licensing under EXISTING legislation. Therefore, where you use a
4x4 and trailer, an operator’s licence will not be required.
Examples of dual purpose vehicles can include 4x4 all-terrain vehicles or even estate cars – vehicles which are constructed or adapted for the carriage of both goods and passengers.
THE BIT THAT IS NOT MENTIONED is that the existing legistration only covers a duel purpose vehicle up to 2040kg unladen weight.
So Disco. Range Rover etc will still need O licence and a CPC licence holder , + the 12 weekly check of the towing vehicle and trailer, taking the disco for service will not do. it has to have a full inspection as does the trailer.
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| 23rd Nov 2011 3:57 pm |
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Frapp
Member Since: 19 Dec 2008
Location: Norff Zummerzet
Posts: 1655
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Its still as clear as a bucket of 
The VOSA release is specific to Horse Boxes, there is no mention of 2040kg UW for the towing vehicle and as I already have an Operators Licence,I can tell you, my trailers do not have to be inspected with the towing vehicle.
Oh, and the CPC Licence holder does not come in until 2014, If it comes in at all.
Discuss
Frapp Member of the carrot crank club
Embarrassingly in for the 2nd round, bought another two
D3 Jack Russell carrier
D4 Landmark for towing duties
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| 23rd Nov 2011 7:37 pm |
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grahamk
Member Since: 28 Feb 2010
Location: Dumgoyne
Posts: 1473
 
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My mate got stopped in his van towing a trailer with a classic car on it...he was informed of all the rules regarding tachos etc & regarding hire or reward
Mr PC Plod told him to simply put a sticker on the trailer which clearly stated "not for hire or reward"
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| 23rd Nov 2011 11:29 pm |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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tell yer what, this is making me ukking mad now...........not even those who are supposed to know, actually know 
EMAIL SENT BY ME 21/11 TO THE SAME GUY WHO REPLIED SAYING THE D3 WAS A DUAL PURPOSE VEHICLE:
Morning Steve
I did email you around a week or so ago, but had not heard from you regards the forthcoming implementation.
I am aware that a number of my buisness associates have been escorted off various roads in the north west by VOSA traffic officers not for any inspection, but would appear to be a polite "did you know" type of conversation regards the changes.
Is there any update regards :
1) A period of "implementation" after 4th Dec 2011 and what enforcement action would be issued by traffic officers during this period to ecourage those effected to apply for the OL
2) Whether there is/are proposed any changes relevant to myself utilising a Land Rover Discovery and tri-axle single car transporter now that guidance might have been issued to VOSA/Traffic Commissioners by the DoT since we last communicated
3) Financial Standing - am I to believe that there will be changes to the existing method of showing financial standing in the form of an "undertaking" by those applying for an OL after 4th Dec 2011
I look forward to hearing from you shortly
Many thanks
REPLY RECEIEVED THIS MORNING 23/11
Mr James,
As you say in your email, VOSA have begun the process of informing affected operators of the change in the law, but we would not expect them to take enforcement action until 6 months after the Regulation enters into force.
The use of a combination of vehicle and trailer that is over 3.5t and operated for hire or reward will require an O-licence. Hire and reward in these terms is generally carrying goods that do not belong to the operator – so if you are hauling, for example, new cars for delivery to their owners homes, that would be hire or reward. However, if you own classic vehicles yourself and are delivering them on hire, say to a film company for a film shoot, that would not be hire and reward because the ‘goods’ belong to you and you can continue to use the small trailer exemption.
The detailed rules on what evidence can be submitted to prove professional competence is for the traffic commissioners to determine. The Acting Senior Traffic Commissioner has published in draft the new rules on financial standing that will operate under the Regulation and these can be found here: www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2010-42. These show that the requirements in future will remain broadly as they are now and that, particularly, the ability to use ‘cash in bank’ via statutory declaration will remain.
As a final point, is your business and others like covered by a trade body or a trade publication?
If you require anything further, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards
Steve Blackmore
Operator Licensing and Roadworthiness Division
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| 24th Nov 2011 1:08 am |
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