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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
  
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Frapp wrote:
Frapp
Club Operators Licence
Club Tacho
Club EA Waste carriers licence
Club Lots of trailers
Club Lots of things to put on them
Club Wait until I get pulled and see if the dick understands why he pulled me
Think I need to add similar to mine 
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 13th Oct 2011 9:40 am |
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hensoni
Member Since: 01 Oct 2007
Location: Sleepy Somerset
Posts: 576
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As well as
Club Lever Arch folder full of VOSA leaflets with highlighted text 'cos I have enough problems remembering what day it is, let alone remembering which particular bit of contradicitng legislation I am meant to be following.
We need more characters in the signature.... Club missing my D3
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| 13th Oct 2011 8:08 pm |
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Ian G
Member Since: 18 Aug 2011
Location: Merseyside
Posts: 71
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character wrote:HMRC might get yer for P11d benefit in kind for the cup of tea/biscuits at the other end
You may laugh by I've actually had a similar conversation with VOSA, who had initially suggested that my motorhome - a converted DAF wagon - would be subject to operator licensing if I won a trophy when I took it to a track day to make tea in.
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| 14th Oct 2011 1:50 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50966
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Whatever the interpretations there is likely to be a moratorium on prosecutions for a period of 6 months or so while the regs bed in ...during this time there would be words of advice given except in severe cases or perhaps where there has been a serious RTC.  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 14th Oct 2011 7:45 am |
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hensoni
Member Since: 01 Oct 2007
Location: Sleepy Somerset
Posts: 576
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My local VOSA office provided this information today:
Hi Ian
I understand that this is going to be the updated information contained within the GV74 "Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing" guide for operators.
"A trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1,020kg need not be taken into account in the weight calculation for a vehicle pulling a trailer. It therefore can be ignored for the purposes of adding up total gross weights or unladen weights to determine whether they are above the threshold for requiring an operator’s licence.
However, this exemption does not apply if you are carrying other people’s goods for hire or reward (e.g. working as a courier or freight transport business). In such circumstances, the weight calculation must include any trailer attached (irrespective of the trailer’s weight). In this case, if the vehicle and trailer combination exceeds the weight limits stated above for a single vehicle, a standard licence is required." Club missing my D3
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| 14th Oct 2011 3:11 pm |
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Frapp
Member Since: 19 Dec 2008
Location: Norff Zummerzet
Posts: 1655
 
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hensoni wrote:My local VOSA office provided this information today:
Hi Ian
I understand that this is going to be the updated information contained within the GV74 "Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing" guide for operators.
"A trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1,020kg need not be taken into account in the weight calculation for a vehicle pulling a trailer. It therefore can be ignored for the purposes of adding up total gross weights or unladen weights to determine whether they are above the threshold for requiring an operator’s licence.
That makes life easier for using the D3 as a spare tug, Frapp likes that  Member of the carrot crank club
Embarrassingly in for the 2nd round, bought another two
D3 Jack Russell carrier
D4 Landmark for towing duties
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| 14th Oct 2011 5:26 pm |
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Walkzinho
Member Since: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Chester
Posts: 140
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I ferry marquee's up and down the country on a 16' James Edwards tri-axle, it was a palaver getting the tacho fitted and now this!!
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| 14th Oct 2011 9:18 pm |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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Walkzinho wrote:I ferry marquee's up and down the country on a 16' James Edwards tri-axle, it was a palaver getting the tacho fitted and now this!!
do not worry, so long as yer got a 4x4 at the front then you are looking at a dual purpose vehicle, so indications are that you will be exempt so long as you've got yer tacho calibrated, if digital you've had the head unit downloaded within the past 52 days and yer digital card data downloaded within the past 28 days....... 
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| 15th Oct 2011 12:54 am |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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hensoni wrote:My local VOSA office provided this information today:
Hi Ian
I understand that this is going to be the updated information contained within the GV74 "Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing" guide for operators.
"A trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1,020kg need not be taken into account in the weight calculation for a vehicle pulling a trailer. It therefore can be ignored for the purposes of adding up total gross weights or unladen weights to determine whether they are above the threshold for requiring an operator’s licence.
However, this exemption does not apply if you are carrying other people’s goods for hire or reward (e.g. working as a courier or freight transport business). In such circumstances, the weight calculation must include any trailer attached (irrespective of the trailer’s weight). In this case, if the vehicle and trailer combination exceeds the weight limits stated above for a single vehicle, a standard licence is required."
typical, quoting current legislation Goods Vehicle Licensing Act 1995 - I guess not suprising given that the secretary for transport has yet to ratify the amends and now he's off to Ministry of Defence
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| 15th Oct 2011 12:57 am |
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twoakers
Member Since: 15 Nov 2010
Location: Harwich
Posts: 367
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A really interesting thread. Thanks Character for posting it and the others for contributing.
For my part, I operate a 1.5 tonne mini digger. It is towed by my Disco 4x4 on an Ifor Williams 3.5 tonne trailer. The all up weight of the trailer with the digger, extra buckets and gear pushes about 3 tonnes. I go out to play on average once or twice a month on strictly local work.
No tachograph fitted because of the exemption:
"Vehicle is not over 7500kg GVW or is part of a combination of vehicles not over 7500 kg combined GVW which is used to carry materials equipment or machinery for the driver s use in the course of his work within a 50 km radius of base and where driving is not the driver s main activity"
What now really concerns me is the reliance on my Disco 3 being a DPV as being exempt from the requirement for an Operators Licence. 
All we need now is for a tweak of the all important weight of a DPV to be raised slightly making us fully compliant 
Thanks guys once again for the ongoing work you have and are doing in the area. 8)
Cheers,
Dave in sunny NE Essex Cheers, Dave in Essex
D3 07 TDV6 HSE
Clubs - Turbo changed, EGR valves replaced, General Grabber ATs, Hawkeye FC reader, Front/rear wishbones, manual gearbox change, autobox flush, cam belt change, HPFP belt change, oil pump change....
Coachman Laser 650/4 caravan
Amateur Radio Callsign - G8PAI
Playing with Big Boys Toys!
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| 15th Oct 2011 8:59 am |
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stvmor
Member Since: 21 Mar 2008
Location: Hove East Sussex
Posts: 145
 
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I have received this from Ifor Williams in response to my query to them.
This appears to cover much of the ground already posted but does make specific mention of Landrovers.
Again only VOSA's opinion not legally binding.
Dear Andy
I refer to your recent e – mail addressed to Gordon MacDonald , concerning
the above. Gordon has passed your query to me for reply.
I have outlined below, an extract from the forthcoming update of our
booklet "Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing A Guide for Operators" (GV
74) on
this: -
"...A trailer with an unladen weight of less than 1,020kg need not be
taken into account in the weight calculation for a vehicle pulling a
trailer. It therefore can be ignored for the purposes of adding up
total gross weights or unladen weights to determine whether they are
above the threshold for requiring an operator’s licence.
However, this exemption does not apply if you are carrying other
people’s goods for hire or reward (e.g. working as a courier or
freight transport business). In such circumstances, the weight
calculation must include any trailer attached (irrespective of the
trailer’s weight). In this case, if the vehicle and trailer
combination exceeds the weight limits stated above for a single
vehicle, a standard licence is required".
Therefore, for many operator's of small trailers, the situation will
remain unchanged - as the users of these combinations will be
unaffected, as they will be carrying their own goods. However, where a
3.5 tonne van/trailer combination is used and it is clear that the
carriage of goods is for payment (a removals company perhaps?) then an
operator's licence will be required - even where the trailer has an
unladen weight of less than 1020 kgs.
Note: Under Schedule 3 (2) of the goods Vehicles (Licensing of
Operators) Regulations 1995 "a dual purpose vehicle and any trailer
drawn by it" is identified as exempt from goods vehicle operator
licensing. Examples are Range Rovers, Land Rovers, Jeeps, certain
Japanese vehicles and those designed to go over rough ground as well
as on roads. Therefore, (under existing legislation) where a 4x4 is
used, the combination will be exempt from operator licensing - even when carriage is for hire or reward.
I should point out that this is in VOSA’s view and does not constitute
legal opinion
I hope that the information given above has helped clarify the current
position. If you have any further queries, do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards
Chris Slowley
Operator Licensing
Strategy and Customer Directorate
VOSA Stvmor
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| 18th Oct 2011 3:06 pm |
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character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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If you read the pages above you'll see his reply is already posted
BTW please don't bombard Chris from VOSA with enquiries that have already been covered in the previous pages, he's a very busy chap 
Mods can yer take the contact details details for Chris from Vosa off the above posting as I'm sure he would be a bit annoyed to hear that his reply was posted without his knowledge when members phone him to say " hi I saw your letter on disco3.co.uk etc"
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| 18th Oct 2011 8:50 pm |
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18506
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As it happens I've seen this, but just report any posts which require a quick edit 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know!
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| 18th Oct 2011 9:06 pm |
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Ian G
Member Since: 18 Aug 2011
Location: Merseyside
Posts: 71
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If he gets bombarded, that might indicate to his organisation that things need to be more simple!
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| 18th Oct 2011 9:40 pm |
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