Member Since: 30 Oct 2024
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 11
Ongoing electical gremlins
I would like to invoke your assistance in endeavouring to find a cure for the ongoing fault(s) in my Land Rover Discovery.
The vehicle is a December 2012 build, 3 litre twin turbo, 7 seat, SE model with approx. 140,000 km on the clock in first class condition. It has never been in accident.
About 18 months ago, it developed various faults in the electrics (listed below).
My mechanics specialise in all things Land Rover and are extremely knowledgeable. They could not locate the source of the fault (or faults). I have also spoken with the main Land Rover / Jaguar dealers (from whom I purchased the vehicle in 2017) and they were unable to shed any light on the problem(s) or how to fix them.
The vehicle has a personality problem. It will play up (exhibit the fault) when in the possession of my wife or I. However, it will not do so whilst at the mechanics - it will be totally well behaved. When it refuses to start for us and we call the RAC - as soon as the Serviceman arrives, it starts!!! Bloody annoying but makes tracking down the reason for the fault(s) almost impossible. I believe that it is behaving like a petulant teenager.
Faults #1 - The faults primarily manifest themselves in the centre console above i.e. the console with the radio (and other display items) and the air-conditioning controls below. In addition the turning indicators are affected.
What happens? Everything shuts down - turns off completely. The turning indicators no longer work. Often a loud squeal also occurs. On occasions, only the air-conditioning controls quit whilst everything else is still active.
The engine and other driving controls (brakes, accelerator, gears, speedo et al) are not affected.
This shutdown may rectify itself within a few minutes or last for days (or last until the vehicle arrives at the mechanics!).
I suggested that it may have been an earth circuit problem and I had the mechanics replace the battery earth lead and make sure the earth mounting was clean and bright. This seemed to resolve the problems for about 6 months but they started again. The earthing was again checked and declared to be perfect.
Others have suggested that it is a 'sensor' problem. I am not knowledgeable about the 'sensors' in the system but the mechanics assert that unless it plays up in their presence, they cannot locate the fault. As stated - it does not do so.
Fault #2 - The latest problem is the inability to recognise the 'smart keys' even when putting them in the slot under the steering. The message on the dash is quite clear 'smart key not found'. My mechanics advice is to exit the vehicle, lock it, wait 5 minutes, unlock and then it will start.
In the last few days, the problem occurred. It would neither start nor would it lock. We called an RAC tow truck to take it to the mechanics. After a 2 hour wait the tow truck arrived. As the vehicle was in the garage, with the steering locked, the tow truck driver was concerned as to how he was going to roll it out of the garage without hitting the door frame.
At this time, I tried to lock the vehicle again. It locked! The tow truck driver (with the other set of keys) unlocked it and the vehicle started immediately!
He did take it to the mechanics where it has not missed a beat since!
Oh, the frustration!
Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
Neil McP
30th Oct 2024 9:33 pm
KPTV8
Member Since: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Itinerant !! (Scotland/Donegal)
Posts: 186
Check for any sign of water or moisture in the hollows of the steel floor of the footwells - esp. the front footwells. Historically there's a long and varied series of reported electrical/electronic malfunctions arising from wet footwells - including inconsistent and "temperamental" malfunctions. NUMEROUS members here have suffered !!!
The foam padding beneath the carpets is very deep, you need to dig under the edge of the foam layer until you can see the floorpan - means you need to remove some trim pieces from below where the doors close. Suggest inspect the passenger side first.
30th Oct 2024 9:55 pm
Neil McP
Member Since: 30 Oct 2024
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 11
Thank you for your prompt advice - I will investigate further immediately.
30th Oct 2024 10:39 pm
Neil McP
Member Since: 30 Oct 2024
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 11
Thank you, KPTV8, for your excellent suggestions but I can now advise that after close examination of the vehicle, the footwells are dry. There is no sign of water ingress (e.g. a leaky windscreen).
Additional information: the vehicle is garaged. This area is relatively dry with a moderated rainfall. The normal temperature range is 15 oC to 30 o. Condensation is not a problem.
I am still seeking an answer to my problems...
31st Oct 2024 9:55 pm
KPTV8
Member Since: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Itinerant !! (Scotland/Donegal)
Posts: 186
Hi Neil
Well, sorry that didn't help much - but TBH it is in a sense GOOD news for yourself 'cos the type of damage done by long term water is diverse, and pretty tiresome to fix - so you're probably spared that tedium (e.g. electrolysis eats-away wires - and moist crystals created by electrolytic action can cause partial or complete short circuits; and more !!)
Thinking back, with two of my four discos in the past I've suffered bursts of spurious electrical/electronic bizarre behaviour......
SOME of these arose from water ingress, but not all. As an example, I had at one stage (what turned out to be) a failed "controller" (or is it an ECU ?) for forward-pointing parking assist sensors. For a few weeks while this was in the process of failing, I had apparently unrelated hiccups such as hazard light (rear only !) switching on, fuel gauge suddenly declaring empty, audible internal beeper sounding below 20 mph, great bursts of oddball fault codes being reported.
After the front parking assist failed completely a few weeks later, those hiccups ceased - I'm pretty sure that failing "controller" was dumping rubbish data onto a bus shared with other devices and thus triggering unelated events elsewhere in the vehicle.
If similar were to occur again, my action (with hindsight) would be to check fault codes carefully and ASAP to see if I could work out the VERY FIRST sign of trouble to generate a fault code - perhaps this might throw suspicion on the "root cause" rogue device messing up the shared bus ?
Another approach would be to pull fuses one by one (as far as safe to do so), and hope over time to isolate the offending apparatus.
I hope you nail this problem before your patience nudges you to sell !!
Cheers, Kevin ))
1st Nov 2024 5:50 am
Neil McP
Member Since: 30 Oct 2024
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 11
Thank you Kevin for shaing your experiences.
Unfortunately, my problems continue.
Can anyone else offer a solution ???
1st Nov 2024 9:34 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5036
You need the fault codes if you can provide them, as the problems can originate from a multitude of components/systems.
Otherwise it's a total tail chasing exercise. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
Member Since: 30 Oct 2024
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 11
Thank you Profsr G and Nigel for your replies and your suggestions.
If it was just a matter of tracking fault codes, the problem would have been solved over 18 months ago but as I said in my initial post - the faults do not occur when the vehicle is in site of my (highly experienced and fully equipped) mechanics nor even the RAC man.
Even worse, there is no reported faults remaining in the computer.
Something is going on - but what? Is it a 'sensor' as has been suggested. If so, which one? Is it a dry joint?
I have little hair left...
NeilMcP
8th Nov 2024 1:43 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5036
Are you saying there are no fault codes logged in any module?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
8th Nov 2024 1:45 am
Neil McP
Member Since: 30 Oct 2024
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 11
No fault codes that directly relate to the problem.
On one occasion there was an indication that the forward mounting camera was faulty. It was checked (quite OK) but taken out of the system. The fault continued. The camera was reinstalled. The fault continued.
This has been our onoing experience.
NeilMcP
8th Nov 2024 1:51 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5036
Neil McP wrote:
No fault codes that directly relate to the problem
The diagnostic system is designed such that if any fault occurs it's picked up immediately and logged as either intermittent, permanent, or pending. It's simply not possible to have multiple vehicle faults and nothing logged in the related module/s. Even if the fault rectifies itself the historic record will remain logged until they are deleted via a diagnostic tool.
What diagnostic tools are being used to interrogate the vehicle?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
8th Nov 2024 2:05 am
Neil McP
Member Since: 30 Oct 2024
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 11
I have spoken to the head mechanic and he tells me that they use an Auto Logic Analyser.
He also says that the faults that appear are all 'can bus' faults. I am not knowledgable about such matters and I accept his advice that this information does not assist in curing the faults that I am experiencing.
Your thoughts?
NeilMcP
8th Nov 2024 5:09 am
Worms
Member Since: 24 Sep 2023
Location: Highlands
Posts: 394
Could this be in brake-pedal switch territory? Or brake light bulbs? They are known to throw random allied faults and easy to at least rule out.Previously:
2010 FL2 TD4e GS
‘93 Defender 110 200TDi CSW - still got this, non-runner on SORN.
‘87 Defender 90 4 cyl Petrol
‘83 110 CSW V8 - best ever!
Range Rover 2-door V8 (not sure of year - 4-speed box and vacuum diff switch)
Series III SWB Diesel
8th Nov 2024 6:05 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5036
Neil McP wrote:
He also says that the faults that appear are all 'can bus' faults. I am not knowledgable about such matters and I accept his advice that this information does not assist in curing the faults that I am experiencing.
Your thoughts?
NeilMcP
The fault occurrences you refer to in your original post are typical of those associated with CAN bus failure/s So the fact that your mechanic has found CAN bus errors logged and dismissed them as irrelevant is at the root of your problems.
The CAN bus system is essentially a communications network which allows the cars control modules (ECU's) to talk to each other. The system is a critical functional element of all modern vehicle digital systems, and depending on the modules affected any fault in this network will seriously diminish the the car's functionality or even render it unusable.
From your fault descriptions it appears more than one system is affected, so as Worms suggests the brake light switch is not a bad place to start. It's cheap, takes a few minutes to fit and a check of the the rear light cluster bulbs and fittings won't hurt either.
However, the logged CAN bus faults need investigating (that's why they are there!!) tedious and all as they can be to resolve. Until that's investigated and understood you're going to have to live with it or find a mechanic who understands the system better.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
))
So the fact that your mechanic has found CAN bus errors logged and dismissed them as irrelevant is at the root of your problems.
