Not taken as a pop, don't worry . The evangelist comment was added as I've posted on a couple of insurance threads recently and didn't want it to seem to all and sundry that I'm some kind of champion for the industry.
Re your latter point, what you're proposing/doing isn't fronting and isn't frowned upon as you have clearly stated LJ is the main driver and have in turn made a decision to place the NCD at risk in the full knowledge of the implications should LJ have an accident. In turn, your insurer has accepted that risk. If on the other hand you had listed LJ as an occasional driver to reduce the premium further, that would be fronting.
I mentioned that not all insurers are happy to accomodate such requests as they have had problems where NCDs have been lost and the proposer (mum or dad) has yelled the odds about it not being made clear that they were placing their NCD at risk It's often easier to be angry at the faceless insurance rep than it is to accept that it might not have been the wisest move to take a particular cause of action. It's effectively anger displacement; the proposer is angry at LJ for crashing, angry at themselves for agreeing to place their NCD at risk, but it's easier to shout at the insurance call centre. Some companies have taken a commercial view that the reputational risk from such a scenario is too great, so won't allow NCD displacement to young drivers. If that happens, you have the choice to insure elsewhere.
It needs to be remembered that insurance companies are commercial businesses, and amongst the most heavily regulated industries in the country. That said, I've sat with my head in my hands as I've listened to the senior management of some big-name insurers describe how they can skirt along the very periphery of the letter of the law/regulation, with no intention of exceeding the minimum requirements or acting within the spirit of the regulation.
There are some companies out there who make enormous efforts to do the right thing (Axa and Norwich Union spring to mind) but they too are only as good as the last customer contact. It only takes one misunderstanding, one disinterested member of staff or customer who, on a bad day, makes an incorrect statement for their (the insurer's) reputation to be in tatters. I don't doubt there will be people on where for whom the insurers I mention are the very embodiment of the anti-christ, but my experience of their senior management suggests that while they may not always succeed, they desperately want to do the right thing by their customers.
There are also, sadly, a few companies who simply couldn't give a I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
11th Apr 2008 9:41 am
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
OK chaps, at the culmination of a very long day, I thought I'd tell you how this thread completes (and its worth reading because I've learnt a few things today)....
Dan had set his heart on Corsa C (2000-2006 model) and we'd been looking at 1 litre Club models to keep the price and insurance manageable - I could only get quotes for HIM fully cope at the £2500 mark whilst he'd found that Churchill would insurance him for ONLY £2000. So with that in our back pocket we found two or three 2001 Corsas in our price range (£1800-£2000).
Found a reasonable 1.0 Club in Stoke somewhere (based on owner's accent ) but two people had already called and were going to see. So we moved onto a 2001 1.2 Club being sold by a trader up in Whitefield, North Manchester as it happens - we were the first callers so said we'd be there in half an hour. The 200cc / 1 pot delta had pushed the quote to £2100 but hey ho, this was going to be an expensive day so an extra ton wasn't anything to cry about.
Went up there with Dan and F-I-L (who has a 54 reg one so could compare/contrast) and after test drive decided that as best as we could tell for a 7 year old 50,000+ motor we weren't going to do much better - so haggled the price from £2000 to £1900 inc 6 months tax. Sped home with excited 17 year old sat in back of car to pull together 95 twenty pound notes in an envelope
Hour and half later we're back up there, the deal done, Dan complaining because he's not insured yet, and I'm tootling along on the M60 at 65/70mph slightly concerned about whether the less than quarter tank of fuel would get us home. Anyway we arrive home to much fanfare and congratulations from rest of family and Dan is grinning ear to ear but wants the insurance sorted. Man from Stoke texts back at this point "are we still interested?" - text back "sorry bought anoth one" - there was obviously something hooky about that one as it had a lower mileage and SHOULD have gone straightaway
So I start with Direct Line simply because the mighty Matiz is also insured with them and you get a 10% discount for two cars (remember 10% on £2000 is A LOT!) - this grinds to a halt fairly quickly when they quote over £3000
So back to churchull.com - attempt to convert the £2100 quote into a policy an when get to choose the payment method we get the whammo - one option available, payment in FULL No installments offered - remember I said it was going to be an expensive day?
Anyway rang them up and had a complain, responses were...
"sorry sir as the main driver is not 18 we can't offer credit, its the law"
"no you can't get round it by havng you own policy and have him as the main driver, that would be illegal"
So I have to capitulate and flash the Visa card - owwww - today's one off spend has just topped £4000
So for anyone who's about cough up for their 17 year old's huge insurance premium, you are going to have to pay it all in one go.
I haven't quite finished the story yet... Remember the quarter tank of fuel? Well we trot down to the local Morrisons and put half a tank in - Dan paid - and then its off to Halfrauds for new windscreen wipers and mats. As we're driving home back up a dual carriageway near us a (what we initially thought was a disptick) guy was flashing his lights and waving behind us - when he pulls alongside he says there's fuel or water pouring out from under the car - B O ! ! O X
Got home and then sent SWMBO out in car with Dan with me following and sure enough accelerating or turning left - a curtain of fuel splashed out from under the car Dan was just a tad crestfallen at this point.
Anyway to cot an extremely long story short'ish - after speaking to a mechanic mate AND the sellers (who even though they were trade seem genuinely concerned) - we traced the problem to under the back seat, the float sensor unit set in the top of the fuel tank had come loose and fuel was basically sploshing around through a 7" diameter hole in the top of the fuel tank Judicious use of wood blocks, crow bar, wooden dowel and a hammer sorted it all out by 8pm and ALL is well at last - thank god! Everyone's out of the house so I am going to crack open a few tinnies and peruse the latest posts on disco3.co.uk Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
Stressful day and expensive Home of RLD Hidden winch mounts Spare wheel Locks Trailer Body Fabrication ray@rld-tech.co.uk D3/4 sump plates MY 14 sump plates and the Discovery Sport wheel protectors Discovery 5 wheel locks
more Helsport tents and other things for camping Law of Mechanical Repair:
"After your hands are coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch and you'll have to pee!"
19th Apr 2008 7:52 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
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Oh
Cheers Steve, made my day
19th Apr 2008 11:21 pm
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Forgot to add - the D3 is safe - Dan is not insured to drive ANY other car (with owners permission) third party until he's 25
And now we've taken him off SWMBO's insurance - hers has dropped back down to £240 Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
20th Apr 2008 1:15 pm
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
TF I've not to do this for another 4 years (Martie can get saving)
Its a tale of lots of Money and to be honest the pay in one lump is the best way at that age its easy for them to miss a payment
20th Apr 2008 1:48 pm
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Ken wrote:
them to miss a payment
It was ME trying to make the payment He was going to run a Standing Order into my account so that if he hit a ca$hflow issue, good Ol' Bank of Mum and Dad would stand him a short term overdraft facility B****r still owes me a chunk of ca$h for the purchase - strangely its not been mentioned since yesterday... Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
Thats Kids for you good old Mum and Dad .Home of RLD Hidden winch mounts Spare wheel Locks Trailer Body Fabrication ray@rld-tech.co.uk D3/4 sump plates MY 14 sump plates and the Discovery Sport wheel protectors Discovery 5 wheel locks
more Helsport tents and other things for camping Law of Mechanical Repair:
"After your hands are coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch and you'll have to pee!"
20th Apr 2008 3:10 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73075
Reminds me of why we (Mrs DSL & me) say "Dogs, not sprogs!!!"
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. The evangelist comment was added as I've posted on a couple of insurance threads recently and didn't want it to seem to all and sundry that I'm some kind of champion for the industry. 
It's often easier to be angry at the faceless insurance rep than it is to accept that it might not have been the wisest move to take a particular cause of action. It's effectively anger displacement; the proposer is angry at LJ for crashing, angry at themselves for agreeing to place their NCD at risk, but it's easier to shout at the insurance call centre. Some companies have taken a commercial view that the reputational risk from such a scenario is too great, so won't allow NCD displacement to young drivers. If that happens, you have the choice to insure elsewhere.
whilst he'd found that Churchill would insurance him for ONLY £2000. So with that in our back pocket we found two or three 2001 Corsas in our price range (£1800-£2000).
) but two people had already called and were going to see. So we moved onto a 2001 1.2 Club being sold by a trader up in Whitefield, North Manchester as it happens - we were the first callers so said we'd be there in half an hour. The 200cc / 1 pot delta had pushed the quote to £2100 
but hey ho, this was going to be an expensive day so an extra ton wasn't anything to cry about.
- and then its off to Halfrauds for new windscreen wipers and mats. As we're driving home back up a dual carriageway near us a (what we initially thought was a disptick) guy was flashing his lights and waving behind us - when he pulls alongside he says there's fuel or water pouring out from under the car 
with Dan with me following and sure enough accelerating or turning left - a curtain of fuel splashed out from under the car 
| 08MY Discovery 3 (history) 
B****r still owes me a chunk of ca$h for the purchase - strangely its not been mentioned since yesterday... 
