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Ceekay
Member Since: 17 May 2009
Location: Bury
Posts: 2089
  
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| Insurance and Tyres (abit long winded sorry) |
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I'm sure we have covered this many times but it would seem the insurance companies do not wish me to be legal (as such) or declare too much 
I upgraded to a D4 in November which was insured with Admiral and I was mid policy from my D3 and they decided to more than double the premium as the vehicle was 10 years newer and worth a penny or two more. AT the same time I had removed the mods like wider tyres etc as my D4 was standard as such unlike the D3, but still over twice the price.
This has led me to find alternate insurance and after many enquiries found that most companies will insure wider tyres as standard as long as they remain the same size i.e. 20" as original. I found that if you do this online they like to charge you between £100-£200 more for this privilege but if you phone them most state that they count wider tyres i.e. from 255 to 275 as covered as standard although do not write this always into the policy but will confirm in an email if pushed.
The real problem comes if you want them to change a speed rating from Y to T as I required. I changed my insurance to the AA who used CIS to insure the D4 at a third of the cost due to already having the wife's evoque covered with them and both of us having breakdown cover with them (relay of course it is a LR) This was a great result and they stated that wider tyres are covered as standard at no extra charge.(unless online then its £200 more). When I said I wanted to change the spec of the tyre but on a manufactures standard rim they said that was fine and would send me an email confirming this which I received. The problem is the email did not state the new speed rating reference just that I would be running a wider tyre. I requested that this be included and was told by a manager this was not a problem and he would send a new email containing this information. After around 10 minutes I received a new email from him stating CIS did not want to cover the vehicle with these tyres on! This was only 15 minutes after the policy began Obviously I instructed them that these tyres were not even purchased yet never mind fitted so they should continue with the standard cover which they have or so I'm told.
I have been going all over the insurance world to try and sort this but if I mention Speed Rating it seems to scare them away even the specialists like Adrian Flux and others alike. I have tried quite a few without success although I have spoke to one of the big boys this morning but did not use the words speed rating just said from 255x55R20 Y rated to 275x55R20 T rated and they said if I take the insurance out spending around £200 more with wider tyres that they will be happy to email me what's covered with the tyre rating listed as T although still not convinced I wont end up in the same situation again.
The one or two who have suggested they would cover this start quoting 3 times as much to insure with different spec tyres and alot are just saying NO!
It would seem on reflection that the insurance brokers or companies are happy for me to declare wider tyres and forward that to the underwriters but if they get a sniff of spec change that wider tyre cover you think you have is non existant as what they really seem to think is that any wider tyre must be of the same specification although that is strictly unsaid.
I can only think that there must ne hundreds of thousands of vehicles on our roads that are probably not covered properly if at all. Im sure many purchased used vehicles will have had spec changed one way or another including tyres without the new owners knowledge, that are not as per manufacturers spec. In saying this you would think you would hear about it more if this many vehicles were not getting paid out after an incident.
Anyway any advice in this situation much appreciated as it would seem that even the specialist insurance companies do not have a clue about tyre specs and safety etc and they are definately not interested in knowing that the speed rating of a tyre is tested non-stop for 24 hours in excess of the tyres rating which just happens to be 43mph above the legal limit. Im thinking many of us using tyres even down to a Q (99mph) rating are just insured as a wider tyre and the underwriters will assume at the same spec as when the vehicle ws supplied brand new.
In any case if you know of a company that can do this and confirm it in writing please let me know as I'm thinking I should of kept my blinkers on and remained thick about the other specs  D4 HSE Lux MY16 Club Waitomo
D3 HSE MY06 missing her still…
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 16th Jan 2019 3:26 pm |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10844
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When speaking to insurers I have always stressed that the rolling radius is effectively unchanged, even if I change from 21" to 19" rims.
I've never had a problem with regard to tyre width; but in truth I have never wanted, or tried to, get cover for a lower speed rating.
I've always been strictly correct when changing rims, and specified that the alternative rims are, as they always have been Land Rover OEM products, always giving the LR part number.
Good luck.
NJSS Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
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| 16th Jan 2019 3:36 pm |
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Madrilleno
Member Since: 13 Oct 2014
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 1788
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I have dealt with Adrian Flux for about four years. On my D3 I had a set of Scorpion Zeros - V rated and a set of Duratracs which were T rated. There was no charge to add the Duratracs, or any other mods such as sump guard, tree sliders, etc. and I delcared everything.
The policy itself was with ERS. There are two rules for success,
1. Never tell everything you know.
D4 gone!
D5
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| 16th Jan 2019 3:49 pm |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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You could point out that the car has a top speed of 112 (electronically limited as well as the sheer physics involved) and that T is rated to 118MPH. I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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| 16th Jan 2019 4:03 pm |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10844
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Interesting.....I was warned off ERS a few years ago.
In the light of your post I did a Google search, "ers insurance reviews", which reveals some pretty poor results.
Hope you don't have any problems with them.
NJSS Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
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| 16th Jan 2019 4:03 pm |
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Madrilleno
Member Since: 13 Oct 2014
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 1788
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No. Had a claim two years ago, my fault, no hassle.
Then at the end of last year, not my fault this time, no hassle from ERS. There are two rules for success,
1. Never tell everything you know.
D4 gone!
D5
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| 16th Jan 2019 4:04 pm |
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L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2083
 
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Interesting as my Ford B Max only specifies the size of tyre, no mention of load or speed rating in either the handbook or pressure label. Asked local dealer , was told to use ratings of existing tyres. As I said that means nothing, as it is a used vehicle and I don't know whether they are correct. Emailed Ford Customer services and they confirmed no specific speed /load is specified , only they must be suitable. whatever that may means! I suppose I could go on its axle loadings and maximum speed. The Road traffic acts only specify the tyres must be suitable for the use the vehicle being put too.
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| 16th Jan 2019 4:59 pm |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8244
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Although tyres are rated in mph and the speed rating for D3/4s is well above their top speed the reason for this is the torque that a given vehicle can put on a tyre, a vehicle that can tow 6 ton needs a stronger walled tyre than a vehicle that can only tow 1 ton, the same applies to the force and stress put on the tyre when cornering with a vehicle weighing 3.5t loaded against a vehicle weighing less than half of that.
In other words it is the manufacturers recommended speed rating that is legal, not the top speed of the vehicle. It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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| 16th Jan 2019 5:02 pm |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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Thats load rating  Speed Rating is as the title Speed related
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| 16th Jan 2019 5:08 pm |
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L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2083
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I know when I worked at LR, I asked why on a particular vehicle the speed rating of the tyres had increased and as far as I was aware no other changes had occurred and was advised because the higher rating was popular with other vehicles manufactures, we ( LR Purchasing), could buy at a better price due to higher production volumes. All to do with cost, nothing to do with speed rating per say ! But then of course for legal reasons that then goes on the tyre label.
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| 16th Jan 2019 5:11 pm |
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Ceekay
Member Since: 17 May 2009
Location: Bury
Posts: 2089
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I had LTZ's on my old D3 and had told the insurance company I had wider tyres and thought I had done the right thing but in hindsight they probably would of not insured if I had mentioned the spec of the tyre but I didn't know I had done anything wrong.
I was about to order a set of Pielli Scorpion All Terrain Plus @ 275x55R20 T rated for the D4 and after alot of research and advice from others finally decided these were the ones with Duratracs being a close second but they would be worse as they have gone form an S to a Q I believe, even though the tyre itself has not changed.
Surely a approved tyre on the manufacturers original wheel with a speed rating of 118mph tested continually for 24hrs by a main stream manufacturer should be exceptable. There not bothered about the width which could potentially cause worse problems. The Disco even has settings in the OBD that can be changed to match the correct size wheel and tyre I think so no speedo probs.
Adrian Flux came back with nearly 3 times as much as my current the AA/CIS that's before talking tyre spec and the additional insurance covers that we tend to add and then when I said no tried to pass me onto another company. Ive had No claims, no accidents, 28 yrs no claims what more could they want even the post code isn't that bad.
I have tried pointing some of the details out to the insurance companies as said but most don't understand or don't want to know or simply go to the underwriters who I think must automatically enter Panic Mode on their all terrain response 
I may try another in a day or two but im all Insured out at the mo but thanks for the comments D4 HSE Lux MY16 Club Waitomo
D3 HSE MY06 missing her still…
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| 16th Jan 2019 5:11 pm |
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Stufea
Member Since: 18 Mar 2016
Location: Doing what swmbo tells me to do
Posts: 245
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The Load rating is the important part that is what say how "strong" a tyre is,
There was a case many years ago when the last generation Cavalier came out, it was fitted with 195/60R14 V rated tyres which ere very expensive for the lease company to change so they argued with the insurance company that H rating was ok as it was over the 70mph max UK speed limit and also pointed out that this was within the UK governments use and construction regulation = max speed uk 70 and the load rating was the same
if it was the case that the lower speed was a problem no one could get insured with Winter/M+S tyres as these are lower speed rating. Porsche/BMW Mercedes etc all list lower speed for winter tyres.
Its more of a problem if you get the rolling diameter wrong or the load rating is too low 2006 D3 HSE
Java Black
Clock in Dash
3 Flash Indicators
V8 brake upgrade
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| 16th Jan 2019 5:17 pm |
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gje
Member Since: 09 Mar 2014
Location: world
Posts: 488
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Surely the only thing that insurers should be legally concerned with are the tread depth of the tyre?
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| 16th Jan 2019 5:22 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
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Off Topic somewhat, but you could consider doing what I’ve done with my last 3 D4’s. Stash the 20”s in a shed and fit 19” or 18” rims. The later being Compomotive.
2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 16th Jan 2019 5:39 pm |
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Ceekay
Member Since: 17 May 2009
Location: Bury
Posts: 2089
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 I could and have been tempted lately on my trip to prospeed but then id have the same problem but with more noise D4 HSE Lux MY16 Club Waitomo
D3 HSE MY06 missing her still…
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| 16th Jan 2019 6:11 pm |
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