Member Since: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Newbury
Posts: 11
Is this engine seized?
With this post let's not I slam the situation but discuss the problem.
Discovery 3 2.7l, on an 07 plate.
This car was brought unseen.
The previous owner has said they were going down the road and the engine cut out. The disco was recovered to a garage (where it was originally purchased from 2 years prior) who said the cam belt had gone and the engine seized. They made this diagnosis from looking into the oil filler cap and saying they could see metal in it. The owner couldn't see metal in it but then they are not a mechanic.
Looking at the car there is a cam belt on it and I can't see any metal in the oil filler cap.
The coolent level was low but we added about a 3/4 of a pint. The oil was showing on the dipstick but was a little low. The battery was low. The car has been stood for a couple of weeks.
Charged up the battery
The engine turns over, no noise or clunks sounds fine but doesn't start.
Diagnostic test says it's a crackshaft sensors gone.
Here's my thing, if the cam belt had gone and the engine seized then it either wouldn't turn over or if it did it would sound like a bucket of bolts being shaken.
What do peopl think about the issue and NOT the situation and what would the next steps be?
I was thinking about dropping the under tray and removing the sump plug and looking at the state of the oil.
3rd Apr 2017 1:02 pm
timmyt79
Member Since: 18 Oct 2016
Location: Pemrokeshire
Posts: 585
I would say that if the crank had gone then no way would it turn over! Good idea ref dropping oil,i would be tempted to drop oil and then drop complete sump and see what you find.
You may be lucky!
Welcome to the forum
3rd Apr 2017 1:10 pm
Hastiedecision
Member Since: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Newbury
Posts: 11
Thanks for the welcome and your thoughts.
Do you think it would be seized if it turns over?
3rd Apr 2017 1:14 pm
Hastiedecision
Member Since: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Newbury
Posts: 11
Sorry you've already answered that, derr!
3rd Apr 2017 1:23 pm
Admirable
Member Since: 19 Jul 2015
Location: Fife
Posts: 1011
I think there is a bit of confusion here with engine issues,
1/ If the timing belts/oil pump fail the valves usually hit the pistons so the engine can turn over but some noise is likely and it might turn over faster than usual.
2/ If the crankshaft bearings turn or fail in some way the crank will seize and the engine will fail to turn.
Removing the sump or the timing belt cover will provide more info but I’d start with the belt cover
EDIT; just re read your post, have you stripped the the front down to fully see the cam belt?
3rd Apr 2017 1:24 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
I reckon timing belt tensioner has sheared off. It's behind the plastic cover on the front if the engine. Your car is in the danger range of cars that had a weak design oil pump casting, which the timing tensioner bolts to.
3rd Apr 2017 1:33 pm
Hastiedecision
Member Since: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Newbury
Posts: 11
Thanks for your reply and clarification.
To be clear I haven't stripped down the front of the engine but I can see that belt it in place and cannot see any damage/splits in it. Also the engine turns over so the belt must be fine.
Also I cannot hear any noise from the engine in terms of valves etc hitting piston, that would be quite obvious!
3rd Apr 2017 1:34 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
Well going on the known faults for this engine, if the tensioner has come off the oil pump then the belt will still be in place, it may have jumped a few teeth.
Your quickest solution might be to strip the cover, see if the pump is intact, if it is, then you know it's not the problem and can look deeper into the engine. If it's broken, then it's up to you whether you chance it by fitting a new pump and tensioner/belt and see if it runs.
There are loads of threads on here, some got away with broken rockers only. Which may explain why you do not have a cacophony of spanners in a tin when you turn it over.
The crankshaft position sensor would prevent it from firing, however as Gareth has put above, first check the front end is in one piece, if it is look at the crank sensor
And if you get it running, do the belts and fit a later oil pump to prevent the know failure before driving it too far Altox GSM FBH controller thread
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3rd Apr 2017 2:01 pm
Hastiedecision
Member Since: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Newbury
Posts: 11
Great ideas chaps, thanks for those, now need to read the enormous threads to see what step by step works I need to undertake to examine the oil pump / tensioner, unless you guys know where there a step guide ? Which will save time and also what to look for ?
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Owner of the original "Beanie" grille
D4 & RRS style D3 grilles made to order
3rd Apr 2017 2:37 pm
Hastiedecision
Member Since: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Newbury
Posts: 11
Sounds straight forward!
Just a bit more information, went back through the service record and see that 35k miles (it's got 142 on the clock) ago it had a cam belts (plural) changed so gave the garage a call they said the following were done - cam belt kit (LR 016655), belt and tensioner to fuel pump EU4 (LR 019115), idler cam belt front, alternator/fan belt (PQS500370) all genuine LR parts.
Two question, and I know I'm asking for some crystal ball gazing but a) do you know if these parts contain the oil pump tensioner and belt (different language to main stealer) and b) if so shouldn't it last for at least this long?
3rd Apr 2017 3:05 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
I think the idler cam belt will be the tensioner, but the bit that breaks is the casting that it screws into, which is the engine oil pump housing.
If a main dealer did it, then they probably would not have changed the oil pump casting at the same time.
3rd Apr 2017 3:10 pm
KostasA
Member Since: 23 Aug 2015
Location: nairobi
Posts: 286
based on your part numbers, first one is the timing belt, second one is the HPFP belt (at the back of the engine). but it doesn't say oil pump change.
so now there is the catch, usually when timing belt is changed and not the oil pump after a while the pulley on the oil pump brakes and there the fan beginning. as said previously strip the front part is not a big job and will give you some piece of mind. also when you strip take some photos and post here.
cheers,
k.
3rd Apr 2017 3:19 pm
Hastiedecision
Member Since: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Newbury
Posts: 11
Thanks Gareth, looks like I'll need to examine the housing to see its state
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