Member Since: 20 Aug 2016
Location: Marlow
Posts: 77
Battery issues
Hello guys,
Had a 'great' Disco4 adventure today and thought I should share with you and get your thoughts.
The battery which I had in my car was the original LR that most likely came with the car when it was made in 2010. It started playing up and I had to jump start it a few times over the last couple of weeks. It had to die on me in the morning when I was about to take my daughter to kindergarten for the first time this year . With a help of a friendly neighbour we've jump started the car and I've done a 30 mile (one hour) trip to the kindergarten and went to Halfords to replace the original battery. I know, Halfords wasn't my preferred place to buy things, but I didn't want to have any issues when my wife had to drive to pick my daughter up from the kindergarten.
So, after buying the best battery they had for the car (the 019 AGM type battery) and having the halfords guy fit the battery for an extra change, I thought I would be done with the battery issues. I've spent about 30 minutes in the Halfords car park answering work related matters while the engine was running. After that went home and parked the car and went to work for 3 hours. Came back to find that the car wouldn't start again! I was a bit disappointed as you might imagine, asked my wife to call friends to help with the daughter pick up and called the AA to the rescue. The AA guy came and done a bunch of test. He told me that the alternator seems fine, it pushes 14.5V to the battery, the car battery drain was very acceptable, around 0.1-0.15A, but the battery would not charge at all. His suspicion was that the battery had a dead cell.
Anyway, with a great help of the AA guy, we've managed to get back to Halfords after 3 stalls and the battery jump pack connected to the battery with half open bonnet . They've replaced the battery with a new one and this time the guy did register it with the car using their small box that hooks up to the obd port. He did say that as this is a not stop/start car the registration should not be needed, but went through the process anyways.
So, I drove back home and parked my car. Fingers crossed that it will start again tomorrow. Will keep you posted on the progress.
It is still strange that the car managed to start with the battery, but was completely flat (3V according to AA guy) after about 3-4 hours sitting there.Discovery 4 2010 HSE in Stornoway Grey
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8th Sep 2016 8:01 pm
LandPhil
Member Since: 25 Apr 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 197
Was the dead battery an AGM? If it wasn't and you have now fitted one then you do need to reset the Blaterry Monitoring System.
Not sure if the Halfords gizmo can do this. You may need someone with an IID tool or a garage with LR kit to do this. However, it should still be charging providing your alternator is working properly, but not as effectively.
The Halfords bloke obviously doesn't understand the D4, stop start has nothing to do with it, it's the fact that the alternator needs to understand the type of battery it's charging.FFRR Westminster TDV8
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8th Sep 2016 8:29 pm
mozg31337
Member Since: 20 Aug 2016
Location: Marlow
Posts: 77
LandPhil, very interesting. I wasn't sure if the original was agm or not. I do have a picture of it (attached).
The AA guy told me that if the current is being supplied to the battery, which it was according to his tests, the battery should be charging, which apparently it wasn't.
I do have access to the SDD and will try to see if I can find the procedure for replacing/registering the battery there. I will see if it goes flat tomorrow morning.
The halfords guy told me that his tool is universal and should work for any car. Not sure if this is the case or not.Discovery 4 2010 HSE in Stornoway Grey
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8th Sep 2016 9:19 pm
mozg31337
Member Since: 20 Aug 2016
Location: Marlow
Posts: 77
Was wondering if anyone has tried a product similar to this one for jump starting their Discos:
Member Since: 18 Jul 2011
Location: Stockport
Posts: 7830
I don't wish to rain on your parade but this has all the hallmarks of a dying, and possible now dead, alternator.
I'm not too sure why I'm repeating this info as it has been posted on the forum so many times but you must make yourself aware that a dying and/or dead alternator can cause a dead short which will kill a perfectly healthy battery. To hear that you've already killed one battery and then killed it's replacement is text book alternator failure. Your current battery, if your alternator has failed, is currently being killed too so I doubt you'll have much success tomorrow morning.
The only advice is, go immediately to your car and disconnect the battery. If you're lucky, you'll be able to put it on charge and it will charge up successfully off the car but that alternator will have to be replaced BEFORE you fit the next battery/current battery.
Sorry it's not good news but it's been very well documented on the forum.
You may be ok however and your replacement, as you suggest, had a duff cell but please be aware your vehicle is showing all the hallmarks of a classic text book alternator failure so would suggest you get that tested again without delay or your next post could be "My car won't start and I can smell burning plastic"
Last edited by Narpy on 9th Sep 2016 3:51 pm. Edited 4 times in total
9th Sep 2016 3:29 pm
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9th Sep 2016 3:36 pm
mozg31337
Member Since: 20 Aug 2016
Location: Marlow
Posts: 77
Hello guys,
A quick update following 3 nights after Halfords have replaced the broken battery according to the AA investigation. Every day I was driving for about 30-50 miles with about 3-4 stop/starts each day. The car was starting fine I've been monitoring the car's Battery voltage using the navigation diagnostics menu, the one where you have to enter the code 753. While the car is running the Battery output in the Signals menu was showing between 13.8V and 14.2V. Most of the time it stays at 13.9V. It doesn't change often at all. Before starting the car the battery gives me about 12.6V. Leaving the car overnight would give me a reading of 12.1V - 12.2V in the morning before starting the car.
Thanks for the links, i've read them all and can't make up my mind up to this point if my issue was actually a dying 6 years old original battery and the broken halfords AGM battery which has been installed without the registration with the car or a broken alternator. Would a dying alternator kill the battery pretty quickly, like in the matter of hours that happened with the first halfords battery? Or would it allow it to be alive and working for several days? If I am running 4 days without problems, would a broken alternator have killed the second battery already?
The AA guy that done some tests has told me that according to his readings the alternator seems to be working okay and was giving 14V - 14.5V like it should. He was doing various testing for well over an hour coming back frequently to check the alternator output.
I have booked my car for a 6 year service (following an uncertain service quality of the car trader that sold me the car under a month ago - more on that in my earlier post here: http://www.disco4.com/forum/topic149755.html) with the Rovertune in Reading. The service is due in 2 weeks time and I am wondering if a broken alternator would kill my battery beforehand. If not, should I ask the guys at Rovertune to inspect the alternator? I should be covered by an extended warranty cover which I've bought, so hopefully they should be able to address the issues with the alternator using the warranty cover.
In the mean time, if there are any tests that I can run to check the alternator issue, please let me know. Please note that I am not a mechanic and I have very basic or none existent knowledge on cars and tools (apart from a borrowed SDD diagnostics software and a usb cable that works with it)
Cheers
AndreiDiscovery 4 2010 HSE in Stornoway Grey
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10th Sep 2016 7:58 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
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Those alternator output voltages look fine.
10th Sep 2016 8:01 pm
mozg31337
Member Since: 20 Aug 2016
Location: Marlow
Posts: 77
What would one expect from a bad alternator? Would it give a low voltage or high on a contrary? or a very inconsistent reading that jumps all over?
ThanksDiscovery 4 2010 HSE in Stornoway Grey
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10th Sep 2016 10:50 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
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Should start high(ish), say low 15.something then drift down to 14.2 or 13.8 over half an hour or so. With a knackered battery then the alternator has to work harder for longer. With the good numbers from the alternator the battery volts with engine off are too low and would suggest battery knackered. After being left overnight 12.2v is far, far too low. IMHNTO
To monitor the battery easily get a cheap ciggie lighter display. Cheap as chips and very useful. Like here in right elec socket.
Click image to enlarge
11th Sep 2016 6:27 am
mozg31337
Member Since: 20 Aug 2016
Location: Marlow
Posts: 77
What are the reasonable voltage figures for a battery that stayed on an idle car overnight?Discovery 4 2010 HSE in Stornoway Grey
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11th Sep 2016 6:46 am
Narpy
Member Since: 18 Jul 2011
Location: Stockport
Posts: 7830
As Del says, your alternator voltages do look ok.
All you can do is keep your eye on things and hope you've got lucky.
If you have any more starting or battery related issues however you need to immediately suspect the alternator because they have been known to go intermittent before fully failing and it can be during this intermittent period that you end up seriously scratching your head.
I hope it works out for you and your battery problems don't return. Mods:
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11th Sep 2016 12:40 pm
mozg31337
Member Since: 20 Aug 2016
Location: Marlow
Posts: 77
Many thanks. I will keep an eye on the voltage. CheersDiscovery 4 2010 HSE in Stornoway Grey
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11th Sep 2016 2:16 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
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mozg31337 wrote:
What are the reasonable voltage figures for a battery that stayed on an idle car overnight?
12.8V would be a tip-top battery, after the surface charge has dissipated over night.
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. With a help of a friendly neighbour we've jump started the car and I've done a 30 mile (one hour) trip to the kindergarten and went to Halfords to replace the original battery. I know, Halfords wasn't my preferred place to buy things, but I didn't want to have any issues when my wife had to drive to pick my daughter up from the kindergarten.
we've managed to get back to Halfords after 3 stalls and the battery jump pack connected to the battery with half open bonnet 
. They've replaced the battery with a new one and this time the guy did register it with the car using their small box that hooks up to the obd port. He did say that as this is a not stop/start car the registration should not be needed, but went through the process anyways.
