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Crankshaft and engine failures
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Have you had a crankshaft fail on the TDV6
Did your crank fail due to known external factors
4%
 4%  [1]
No explanation as to why the crank failed
85%
 85%  [18]
If you are an independent garage/technician- crank failures due to external factors <5
0%
 0%  [0]
If you are an independent garage/technician- crank failures no external factor <5
9%
 9%  [2]
If you are an independent garage/technician- crank failures due to external factors >5
0%
 0%  [0]
If you are an independent garage/technician- crank failures no external factor >5
0%
 0%  [0]
Total Votes: 21

longclose
 


Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3
Crankshaft and engine failures

There has been a lot of discussion around the tensioner failure on the TDV6 including a poll on this forum, however the crankshaft failure has not had a poll even though we see a number of engine failures monthly.

This poll is to establish if the TDV6 really is a ticking time bomb as a lot of people believe or actually is it just the case that the forum naturally highlights the failures and pain felt by those who have had a failure due to cost and the impact of the failure.

The poll is open to individuals and independent technicians the poll will establish generic engine failure and non specific failure of the crankshaft

Establish generic engine failures caused by external failure, for example wrong fitting of the oil filter, turbo seals, injector failure. Please exclude the cambelt tensioner snapping as this is already identified in another poll.

The other part of the poll is to establish crankshaft/bearing failure where no evidence can be identified to establish the specific cause which is the ticking time bomb element of this post.
 Owning a Discovery 3 is like dating a model.. a firm body and shape, wow.. the ride is fantastic >Very Happy for this your wallet can take a pounding and you worry about being deflated at any time...
2009 Model D3 HSE 
 
Post #15879955th Jan 2016 8:25 pm
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longclose
 


Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

Only 3 failures so far.. come on.. have I missed something?

Comments are appreciated, are you indies reluctant to come forward as your input is invaluable to this poll.
 Owning a Discovery 3 is like dating a model.. a firm body and shape, wow.. the ride is fantastic >Very Happy for this your wallet can take a pounding and you worry about being deflated at any time...
2009 Model D3 HSE 
 
Post #15886927th Jan 2016 2:52 am
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LeighW
D3 Decade 


Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 915

Australia 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3
Re: Crankshaft and engine failures

longclose wrote:
Only 3 failures so far.. come on.. have I missed something?...


Sorry longclose I am unable to participate in your poll.

I am a victim of an engine failure but I wasn't in a financial position to have the failed engine pulled down to ascertain the exact cause. See topic 92246 for my tale of woe with what I SUSPECT was bearing failure. A perusal of that should answer some of your questions.

Also, I think you meant responses; there are many stories of engine failures on this site and the SA site that you also participate in. Let search be your friend.

HTH, Leigh
 LeighW

The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours) 
 
Post #15887597th Jan 2016 10:35 am
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Sloss
 


Member Since: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Aberdeenish
Posts: 1691

Scotland 

Isn't this engine also in Jaguar cars?

Perhaps we need to know if they suffer similar failures?
 Stew,

2010 D4 gone but I really loved it
Went back to Merc - C350 AMG 
 
Post #15887687th Jan 2016 10:51 am
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longclose
 


Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3
Re: Crankshaft and engine failures

LeighW wrote:
longclose wrote:
Only 3 failures so far.. come on.. have I missed something?...


Sorry longclose I am unable to participate in your poll.

I am a victim of an engine failure but I wasn't in a financial position to have the failed engine pulled down to ascertain the exact cause. See topic 92246 for my tale of woe with what I SUSPECT was bearing failure. A perusal of that should answer some of your questions.

Also, I think you meant responses; there are many stories of engine failures on this site and the SA site that you also participate in. Let search be your friend.

HTH, Leigh


Hi Leigh, Thanks for your response, you obviously did a lot of research when you had your failure, I feel for you when that gut wrenching noise hit and the pain that went with it. Do you still own the D3?

The whole point around this poll and debate is what is the extent of the crank failures without cause. In your case as you explain you did not have the resources to explore further. I was hoping that those in the trade on this forum from their personal experiences will come forward not just individuals.

Over the years I know of a number of owners (of all makes and models) who have had big end failure after an oil service. This has been down to wrong fitment of the oil filter or actually forgetting to fill the car with oil and then only filling when the "sh*t" the oil light does not go out! This causes the initial "scouring" damage which then fails after a few hundred K's after spinning a bearing.

I have put the poll on this forum as there is a lot of fear due to the near hysteria on the SA 4x4 forum around the D3 engine failing. I and others are therefore looking for a measured response to try and close the bad reputation that the D3 has in SA based purely around the TDV6 "crankshaft failure". As stated there may be a problem if so lets all get our heads around it.

This is one of the leading independents view in SA of failure having encountered it on his own vehicle.

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=231284

I hope that the very well respected indies who specialise on the D3/D4 on this forum (globally) will come forward and give their views and enter the poll.
 Owning a Discovery 3 is like dating a model.. a firm body and shape, wow.. the ride is fantastic >Very Happy for this your wallet can take a pounding and you worry about being deflated at any time...
2009 Model D3 HSE 
 
Post #15887947th Jan 2016 11:53 am
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longclose
 


Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

OK so 313 views so far and only 4 polls posted in three days... so either there is not a problem to worry about or members are being shy about their experiences. So we hear of 200+ engine failures on the SA 4x4 forum in South Africa but only 4 poll responses from 1,000's of active members globally on this forum (including SA)..

Can we have some honest thoughts and poll responses please.. or do we genuinely believe the failure rate is only 1.3%. from calculating the responses/views. Ironically that is the figure that LR quoted in the news article. Thumbs Up
 Owning a Discovery 3 is like dating a model.. a firm body and shape, wow.. the ride is fantastic >Very Happy for this your wallet can take a pounding and you worry about being deflated at any time...
2009 Model D3 HSE 
 
Post #15892478th Jan 2016 9:30 am
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hugeviking
 


Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1481

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

I too am suprised at the lack of responses. I can imagine private owners becoming dissolutioned with the marque, selling the "broken" vehicle on, and leaving the forum, therefore no replies to your poll. However, I would have thought that those in the trade would have had many a tale to tell.

Andi.
  
Post #15893548th Jan 2016 12:14 pm
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Slimer
Site Moderator 


Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295

United Kingdom 

longclose wrote:
OK so 313 views so far and only 4 polls posted in three days... so either there is not a problem to worry about or members are being shy about their experiences.
Or a majority of those who've looked at this thread haven't had an issue so they've got nothing to add, I've looked at it myself 4 times so there's 4 of your views accounted for. Not everyone's on here all the time, some members only look on here every few days/weeks/months/when they have a problem and the percentage of those that have logged on and have looked at this thread and have had a failure of the type your looking for a response in your poll for is going to be pretty small. Be patient...... The End  
Post #15893638th Jan 2016 12:28 pm
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the admiral
 


Member Since: 19 Oct 2015
Location: South east ,swale
Posts: 170

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

my disco had a new engine fitted under warranty 1 month before i brought it. when i investigated with the dealer who maintained the car it was down to a crank shaft failure. failure happended at 119k 57 plate.
 D3 HSE 57 Buckingham Blue
box re-build
new TC

common sense is not common 
 
Post #15893838th Jan 2016 1:02 pm
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longclose
 


Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

Hi Slimer,

Your point is well taken!

I guess I am used to the SA 4x4community forum where everyone has an opinion on this matter. If this poll/thread was posted there it would be inundated and polluted by the 4x4 forum members who put posts up when they do not even own a Discovery3 or even the LR brand. This as a consequence has given the D3 a bad reputation in SA.

We should all therefore be keen as a forum and its members to protect the D3 reputation from, if proved, unfounded reputational damage. This poll is about trying to do that through an evidence based approach.

However I as hugeviking am surprised by the fact that the trade who visit this forum on a regular basis are conspicuous by their lack of input on the thread, so either there is a hidden problem whereby they feel they cannot comment or it does not even justify a response as there is no problem.

I just hope they come forward and clarify their thoughts on the TDV6 engines to shut the matter up once and for all as they are the ones with the inside knowledge.

I have no personal gripe or commercial gain from this poll/thread, I just want to set the record straight once and for all from those forum members who know best or have personally experienced engine failure.

This will be my last posting as the poll from now will speak for itself.
 Owning a Discovery 3 is like dating a model.. a firm body and shape, wow.. the ride is fantastic >Very Happy for this your wallet can take a pounding and you worry about being deflated at any time...
2009 Model D3 HSE 
 
Post #15893868th Jan 2016 1:05 pm
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Lost for Words
 


Member Since: 03 Sep 2013
Location: Warminster, Wiltshire
Posts: 6703

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

I think another factor could be that many such cases will be investigated at main dealers with the aim of contribution from LR. Thumbs Up
 Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off Sad )
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Post #15894028th Jan 2016 1:20 pm
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DrLex
 


Member Since: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Ciderspace [Oi be in Zummerset]
Posts: 4863

Iceland 

Ditto Slimer's views, but also if you're interested in the response from garages/independent mechanics, why not pm the members here who offer servicing/operate as such? Of course, those members will naturally see a lot of broken cars, and unlikely to be just the vehicles that they normally service. Many are the posts I've seen that can be summarized as "big problem and live in Scotland? Contact Disco_Mikey!"

When this topic last came up, IIRC, the figures quoted for engine failure didn't seem out of line with other marques. Perhaps DG can source an update?
 Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

Member of Club Med Sucks 
 
Post #15894048th Jan 2016 1:25 pm
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DG
Site Moderator 


Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930

Wales 

I don't have any updates to hand Lex but things will not have changed much since I wrote this in the oil casing failure thread in 2014 tbh

DG wrote:
JLR engine failure rates are well within anticipated %'s ...in fact they feature in the top 10 for engine reliability according to Warranty Direct last year with a failure rate of 1 in 77 across the engine range ...and I understand that LR's own figures suggest the TDV6 fails at an average of .8% (less than 1 engine per 100 made) so there appears to be a consistency and in actual fact we shouldn't be surprised that site users engines do fail..in fact more should be failing. Incidentally these figures are twice as good as Audi \ BMW which both feature in the bottom 10.


In another thread I think I calculated that if the failure rate % were to be believed than we could anticipate around 3500 LR TDV6 engines to fail from various causes which will no doubt include the crank issue. If that is the case then the 200 in SA is a feasible number given its market share ...though I'm surprised that there are that many reported on one forum....though appreciate that this could be over years in timescale.

Difficult to relate the failure rate % to forum size in terms of numbers of registered users but as in the Oil casing thread I think we found there were 34 reports ...crank I've not counted on the site but would be surprised if it's more than 75 ..... a little bird told me that JLR recognise it's a "one per week" issue on the TDV6 and once per month on SDV6 Smile

The overriding point is that no matter what I think or have calculated...an independent source is reporting from their own experience and that demonstrates the failure rate is within anticipated ave%.
 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021  
Post #15894268th Jan 2016 1:57 pm
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DrLex
 


Member Since: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Ciderspace [Oi be in Zummerset]
Posts: 4863

Iceland 

Thanks, Rich. I realise (& sympathise) that for some owners, their experienced failure rate is a depressing (& expensive) 100%.
 Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

Member of Club Med Sucks 
 
Post #15894378th Jan 2016 2:23 pm
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Aerialmark
 


Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Burnley (Where the M65 is cobbled)
Posts: 5189

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

Hi fellas I may be way off the mark here but didn,t Bodsy do a lot of research into this ?
  
Post #15895318th Jan 2016 4:57 pm
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