Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
  
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Surely an explanation of the REASON for removing it would clarify the FREQUENCY of removing it?
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 5th Jan 2015 12:42 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
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countrywide wrote:
Are you saying you would tow to the camp site for a night, remove the tow bar and then in the morning put it back on to drive home.
If we are getting down to owners requiring this level of clarification then I think that LR shouldn't be even trying to explain ...they should be enacting a permanent confiscation of vehicles by recall to help save people from themselves.   21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 5th Jan 2015 1:11 pm |
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countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
 
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I was just highlighting why your view of the statement was not really accurate. Of course you would 't do that. But by the same token my example of the person using it three days a week is valid.
It is the change of use and being told to never leave it attached is a different statement to the one you are defending. So I think you have highlighted with your own answer that it is was not as "obvious" as you claim to sensible people.
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| 5th Jan 2015 1:20 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
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I disagree tbh ...the major differences that I recognise in the statements involve the words "should" and "must" but both statements still ultimately require the same action "when not in use".
Incidentally the new advice would also leave you thinking that it must be detached in your camping scenario  So how would you write up the correct wording CW ?   21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 5th Jan 2015 1:45 pm |
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countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
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It would be covered by occasional use, 3 days a week is not occasional. A camping trip 4 or 5 times a year is and leaving it attached during those trips would not be a issue.
The difference you have missed is the type of use, that is very different and has been defined to some extent.
The complete statement has changed when you read all of it, a clarification of use has been added. If it hadn't then you could use a detachable every day or most days and as long as you were using it, the statement you refer to would mean it could just stay on. But we now know it should not be used for more than occasional use and even if you did remove it on the odd day, it is not suitable.
Sorry DG but the statement you refer is not reflecting the current situation at all and despite saying all sensible people would have known from the old instructions is just not true.
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| 5th Jan 2015 2:02 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50968
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We will have to agree to disagree. It's all about interpretation as they say 
Quote: saying all sensible people would have known from the old instructions is just not true.
Be interesting to do a poll on how many people, sensible or not, have ever read the instructions  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 5th Jan 2015 2:13 pm |
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countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
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We will have to disagree
I think the poll result will look like the score we get in the Euro Vision song contest 
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| 5th Jan 2015 2:40 pm |
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ROY_H
Member Since: 30 Jun 2014
Location: South Hams Devon
Posts: 368
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Since this thread popped up, I've been doing my own visual survey of D3/4s I see and the towbars.
I'd say 75-80% of those I see driving round solo have the towbar still in place.
Are these frequent users who have just dropped a trailer off somewhere or going to fetch one ?
My gut tells me NO. They've put the bar in and left it in for convenience. This suggests to me that very few owners are reading/interpreting the instructions as requiring the bar to be removed. Who's fault is this ? LR for ambiguous instructions ? Dealers for not making it clear (though people could easily purchase a towbar after they've bought the car) ? Owners for sheer laziness ?
Who knows, the question is, at the end of the day is the design fit for purpose.
I personally love the idea of an easily detachable towbar but is this one the right design. Wouldn't a NAS style fitting be more robust at the end of the day. Morris Dancers: Drinkers with A Dance Problem
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| 5th Jan 2015 3:14 pm |
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Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
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I see the Hoegh Osaka had 1200 LR vehicles on board....I bet they all had their towballs fitted and that's the cause for it listing to starboard!
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| 5th Jan 2015 4:16 pm |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26744
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I don't think there is anything wrong with the design, especially the later version with the ratchet behind the green handle to prevent reverse-rotation of the handle in use.
If it is removed when not is use, less chance of dirt getting in the works and seizing it up. preventing proper insertion.
If you were disciplined enough, you could probably leave it in the vehicle so long as you regularly removed and serviced it.
Now, how many of us have lost the orange blank to stop dirt getting in the socket when the tow bar is removed?
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| 5th Jan 2015 4:54 pm |
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ROY_H
Member Since: 30 Jun 2014
Location: South Hams Devon
Posts: 368
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Wolfpack wrote:I see the Hoegh Osaka had 1200 LR vehicles on board....I bet they all had their towballs fitted and that's the cause for it listing to starboard!
All the towballs are stored in the nearside pockets.........no way the tin-foil jacks would balance them Morris Dancers: Drinkers with A Dance Problem
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| 5th Jan 2015 6:01 pm |
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Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
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Gareth wrote:
If it is removed when not is use, less chance of dirt getting in the works and seizing it up. preventing proper insertion.
I would have thought there was more chance of damage or getting muck onto the contact surfaces when they are separated????
Gareth wrote:Now, how many of us have lost the orange blank to stop dirt getting in the socket when the tow bar is removed?
Or never had one ....as the previous owner lost it!
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| 5th Jan 2015 6:07 pm |
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Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
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ROY_H wrote:Wolfpack wrote:I see the Hoegh Osaka had 1200 LR vehicles on board....I bet they all had their towballs fitted and that's the cause for it listing to starboard!
All the towballs are stored in the nearside pockets.........no way the tin-foil jacks would balance them
Good point!
So, as long as LR owners dont start unhitching and stowing their towballs during long ferry crossings, all should be well in the channel this year.
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| 5th Jan 2015 6:10 pm |
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Lukey
Member Since: 24 Mar 2014
Location: Northants
Posts: 69
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Hi all, on the subject of this type of hitch failing does anyone know of any accurate recorded description of how the hitch failed, ie. was it down to metal fatigue on the locking pin due to sideways wear thus causing a shear, was it due to not fully locating owing to burrs etc. preventing correct location or was it due to negligent fitting by the owner?
I would have thought that far more hitch locks fail than tow hitches, if so then these manufactures should also have a free of charge replacement scheme if being used for very frequent towing thus the hitch lock also not being fit for purpose. But of course they will say that regular maintenance of the hitch lock and its friction pads is required by the owner to have carried out in order for it to be safe.
Surely anything that is detachable, by definition has moving parts that also require the same amount of care and maintenance, cleaning and light lubrication for example, correct operation of the locking mechanism and correct cleaning and stowage of the tow hitch after its use, not after arriving on site but after the overall trip is completed thus being ready for the next one. If this type of hitch is used continuously day in day out for fairly heavy towing, upwards of 750kg. then sideways wear etc. will occur and will be exacerbated by ingress of road grime and grit thus making the wear worse. A fixed hitch should be fitted. Apart from the variable height ones, most of these still use the same location method but with the addition of side fixings to prevent movement. Still be interested though on how the detachable ones failed. Cheers, Lukey.  If there is a known Inherent problem that no amount of TLC can eradicate then we who tow should be made fully aware of it. I only know because of this site, perhaps a full recall is needed?
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| 5th Jan 2015 6:29 pm |
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Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
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OK ...Ive booked my D4 in to be checked on Wednesday. Looks/feels ok to me...but what do I know?
Of course, assuming its ok, will this inspection be added to the annual service from now on? Or are we expected to arrange it at another frequency?
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| 5th Jan 2015 6:55 pm |
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