Then you have another customer I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
19th Nov 2014 8:33 pm
KJS
Member Since: 26 Feb 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 149
Me too
19th Nov 2014 11:28 pm
whippetman
Member Since: 05 Feb 2011
Location: On the Level
Posts: 19
Please add me to your list!
20th Nov 2014 6:28 am
pjb
Member Since: 05 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Oxon
Posts: 308
+1 Previously those that have a special place in my heart
BV55YZD G4 RRS
BP52GJE G4 110
20th Nov 2014 7:31 am
TheOneAndOnlyNikolaus
Member Since: 13 Jul 2008
Location: Vienna
Posts: 140
Does the vulnerability and your fix only apply to Keyless entry versions of the car or to all our D3/D4?
20th Nov 2014 8:13 am
alex_pescaru
Member Since: 19 Dec 2010
Location: RO
Posts: 270
TheOneAndOnlyNikolaus,
Any ECU can be masked/hidden by playing a little with CAN IDs, messages and corresponding RTR bit.
So if you mask the ECU(s) involved in security/immo on a D3/4, yes.
How?... I will let the expert in oddo changing to explain...
20th Nov 2014 9:17 am
Paddy0174
Member Since: 27 Apr 2014
Location: Munich
Posts: 173
BBS SPY wrote:
[...]
Quote:
Oh, and another question: is this only for the keyless vehicles or for others as well?
Right now the main problem we are addressing with the CAN-LOCK is the easy theft of Keyless vehicles by learning new Keys.
However I am not oblivious to the fact that this event has made many quite aware and concerned as to what else can be diagnostically done to their vehicles over the CAN BUS without the vehicle owners consent.
If there is sufficient demand and interest, the CAN-LOCK is actually capable of being expanded to a degree that could provide a huge variety of user selectable options that could inhibit anything from diagnostic access to any or all ECU's or just specific functions like EMS or CCF flashing.
ATB
Colin
Look here, from page 1...
@Colin
Seems it IS getting initerest from non-keyless-owners Cheers Patrick from Munich
*******************************
Disco4 HSE / corris grey / MY 15
Harley Davidson FLHTCU / red / MY 91
VW Beetle Cabrio / toffeebrown / MY 14
20th Nov 2014 10:34 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
TheOneAndOnlyNikolaus
Of course Non Keyless Entry / Start vehicles have a physical lock and key aspect that makes them less vunerable to such easy theft as the Keyless ones.
However, if the physicalities are somehow overcome, which from what I read is quite common, then owners would certainly benefit from a device like the CAN-LOCK that prevents a new key from being programmed.
Paddy0174
Indeed, there does seem to be quite some interest in this kind of capability, I wonder how many owners would like a version of the CAN-LOCK that blocks and prohibits diagnostic access to All ECU's.
Let me know chaps.
Colin
20th Nov 2014 3:38 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Hi Colin,
I think we have to be careful not to over-egg the threat. I still think this is something that JLR could and should do something about for keyless vehicles, but we must remember that to do anything the thief has to gain access to the vehicle interior. Even with access those with a key have an additional physical barrier. For those without a physical key the CAN-LOCK could restore that extra missing layer of protection.
Physical protection is still required and there are many members who do not deadlock/superlock their vehicles. Some have also disabled their bonnet sensors rendering their alarm useless. Once a thief has quiet access to the engine bay then you really are vulnerable. Of course, we must remember that stealing with the key is the most common method of theft and we have yet to hear of a D4 being stolen without one.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
As you can read for yourself, of the top Ten vehicles being stolen, no less than four are Ford vehicles, with the Transit van being the number one. None of these vehicle models are Keyless entry types and everyone knows Land Rovers are all based on Ford Electronics and Technology.
So as I previously hinted to, having a physical key is obviously not sufficient protection against theft.
With such a well known bad repution, I also stand by my comment that if any Manufacturer could provide a solution, they would have already done so long ago as this problem is by no means new.
Clearly, as can be seen by the Videos, BBS's prowess with these vehicles at even the lowest level of communications allows us to uniqely provide an affordable independant solution that empowers even the very latest vehicle owners with the ability to totally electronically block any equipments capability to program new Keys, of either type, to a vehicle in the form of the CAN-LOCK, should be something any open minded member would and should truly welcome.
20th Nov 2014 5:24 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Hi Colin,
I'm scratching my head reading the article you have used as an example. Are you saying that these vehicles have been stolen by a method that would have been prevented by CAN-LOCK? I'm not trying to be difficult here but my read on the article reinforces the need for physical security and the protection of vehicle keys.
As I said, I can see that this device will add an additional layer of security that has been traditionally been provided by the key. Is the threat such that this is needed for the D3 with a physical key - I'm not yet convinced. However, physical security must not be overlooked and without a single known theft of a D4 by this keyless loop-hole owners must lock the doors properly, keep the alarm fully functional and protect their key fob.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
A physical key is in no way an obstacle for a thief.
In a way, I can say that vehicles with physical keys are the most easy to steal.
Why? Because the key based physical lock is the most easy and at anyone's hand way to turn the ignition on.
A simple solid/resistant blank key attached to a T shaped piece of metal will do the trick by applying a considerable force and breaking the key-lock pins in order to turn the ignition on. There are even videos on youtube...
And from ignition on, it's a child play to initialize the immo information and start the engine.
By blocking/disturbing access to the ECU(s) that hold(s) immobilization information you can effectively block someone to duplicate the key or start the car.
What to you say? Should we start a "How to build yourself a protection device"?
Just kidding... Let's admit it, will not be fair...
Let's wait for the price first....
20th Nov 2014 6:22 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Hi Alex,
I know the vulnerabilities of the key and there are smarter ways than brute force. My message is that security is best done in layers. Regrettably human owners are as adept at reducing the effectiveness of these as much as criminals are industrious at working around or through them. Burgled for your keys is very common over here and this does not require criminals with an electronic box of tricks.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: West kent
Posts: 8531
BBS SPY wrote:
[b]
I wonder how many owners would like a version of the CAN-LOCK that blocks and prohibits diagnostic access to All ECU's.
Let me know chaps.
Colin
colin
with the greatest respect what would be the point , any owner of a D3,D4,RRS or what ever, should not be giving there keys or access to there veh to anybody they don't know or trust thats very simple.
as for locking out all ECU,S i personally find a crazy idea that poor AA man that comes to look at your veh when you breakdown can't access anyhthing to read what faults are stored o and don't forget landcover assist
bloody ludicrous idea if you ask me but then again who am i
20th Nov 2014 7:33 pm
alex_pescaru
Member Since: 19 Dec 2010
Location: RO
Posts: 270
Yes, but the look on the AA or LR assist guy's face will be priceless...
Played this trick with a friend on another friend that has an workshop and poor guy almost threw it's diagnostic tool to the bin....
Last edited by alex_pescaru on 20th Nov 2014 7:44 pm. Edited 3 times in total
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