Can you use a normal heavy battery discharge tester on an AGM battery?
NJSSAm I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
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Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
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29th Jan 2014 7:03 pm
SHARKYSHARKS
Member Since: 20 Dec 2008
Location: Saddleworth Oldham
Posts: 1954
I have only got the one that is fitted to my D4 and to be truthful have had no need to discharge test it as it has been faultless and in my opinion well worth the extra money
But when i did buy it from a stockist who only sells batteries he did discharge it to prove to me it was fully charged, but NJSS that is a good question, which may need a better answer than i can provide !!MY18 D5 HSE LUX😎
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29th Jan 2014 7:20 pm
lespes
Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
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NJSS
Appears you can
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/general...m_battery/D4 Landmark MY16 Santorini Black THE LAST
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29th Jan 2014 8:32 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
To compensate for colder temps the charging voltage is increased. I think we have have some hot countries replying to questions from cold ones!Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Simplistically AGM batteries hold more energy at a lower voltage. They also absorb a charge quicker too......
AGM - some more & hopefully helpful data:
1) I bought the really costly Audi A6 Varta type ...it wasn't cheap.
2) all ok for over 1 year.....as regards starting ( & so it should be)
3) I did sit with the radio on for well over two & a half hours (at reduced level 24 volume)...my Disco wouldn't turn over...after a friendly (actually VERY friendly FFRR lady owner gave me a jump lead start) it has all been OK I drove from Oldham straight back toe the supplier in Leeds (M62) he checked the battery as being OK...+ alternator OK...the statement was that any battery would have done this (?)& I would be well advised to CTEK it back to full charge. I didn't was we were going to drive to York & then to B'Ham & back )which we did.
4) At christmas I had the opportunity to CTEK the Disco AGM unit....with the correct setting it was on for over 20 hours & didn't complete its usual cycle (all the lights on) ...there is zero wrong with the CTEK
+ there is no issue with my D3 since then (vehicle in hard daily use)
I wonder if my CTEK model 5 is powerful enough to handle the AGM I have ?
My Disco has ben thoroughly checked out in Hurst's Belfast (they have all the Latest kit foe testing ..I mean all)BREXIT - done properly.
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29th Jan 2014 9:26 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
The 5 amp Ctek does not play well with some AGMs but should work if the weather is warm. To cater for AGMs I recommend the 7 or the 10 amp Ctek.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Actually, temperature should not be an issue when charging from the D3 alternator or a battery charger.
The D3 compensates for temperature differences in different countries.
For instant, it is not unusual to hear of 16v charging in the UK but it’s VERY unusual to see much over 15v here in Australia.
As to the size of the battery charger. If a 5 amp charger can’t charge a battery, AGM or otherwise, then there is something drastically wrong with the charger.
You should not only be able to charge any lead acid battery with as small as a 1 amp charger, and while it will take MUCH longer to charge the battery, the battery will actually be in a better state than if it was charged with a 10 amp charger.
Also, for testing any battery these days, the old load testers are pretty well useless and it is now a common known problem with calcium batteries that may have been too flat to start a motor and a jump start was needed to get the vehicle running.
Then just the drive to an auto electrician or battery centre would put enough charge back into the battery to get a false OK reading when tested with a load meter.
Standard type AGM batteries are different to AGM cranking batteries, AGM cranking batteries have not been around long enough to find out if they have their own quirky testing faults and this is where the proper test gear is needed but the cost makes it highly unlikely that the average person or many of the battery outlets will have them.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
30th Jan 2014 12:15 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
drivesafe wrote:
As to the size of the battery charger. If a 5 amp charger can’t charge a battery, AGM or otherwise, then there is something drastically wrong with the charger.
This does appear to be an issue with the Ctek 5.0 in combination with some AGMs; whilst they do charge they appear to be reluctant to go into mode 7 or 8, especially when conditions are cold, but they are still delivering power. As an aside the little 3.6 does go into float mode so the issue appears to be confined to the 5 amp and certain AGMs. For info the lower models of Ctek do not have an automatic temperature compensation mode so they cannot profile the voltage to compensate for poor charge acceptance at lower temps.
drivesafe wrote:
The D3 compensates for temperature differences in different countries.
That is kind of what I said but for absolute clarity the ECM control of the charging voltage compensates for inferred battery temperature, rather than having a different setting according to country.
Land Rover wrote:
The rectifier converts the ac current produced in the stator coils into dc (rectified) current required by the vehicle electrical system. The rectifier comprises semi-conductor diodes mounted on a heatsink to dissipate heat. An equal number of the diodes are on the negative and positive side, with an additional diode in the regulator to control feedback through the battery voltage signal line. The rectifier also prevents current flow from the battery to the generator when the output voltage is less than the battery voltage.
The 'smart' regulator controls the output voltage from the generator to protect the battery; at low temperatures battery charge acceptance is very poor so the voltage needs to be high to maximise any re-chargeability, but at high temperatures the charge voltage must be restricted to prevent excessive gassing with consequent water loss. The EMS, which controls the regulator, will calculate the voltage set point required for the ensuing conditions. The 'traditional' regulator controls voltage against generator temperature, which means the battery temperature will lag a long way behind so there will be significant periods of operation when battery charging is compromised. With this system, the EMS can set the voltage by inferring the battery temperature from information received from it's various sensors, hence voltage will follow the battery's needs a lot more accurately.
The regulator has transistors, which rapidly switch on and off to regulate the voltage output according to the voltage sensed internally. The regulator also provides a PWM signal output to the ECM, which uses the signal to adjust the idle speed under varying electrical loads.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi Robbie and I should have been more specific in my post.
As you state, the D3 ECU operation is the same in all countries and what I was indicating was that in cold climate counties, 16+v is something you could see, but if you brought the same D3 over to Australia, because our climate is MUCH hotter ( especially right now with consecutive 45+ temps ) you would not see voltages much over 15V.
As far as the Ctek operation goes, I do not use them and have never been a fan of them, but it is still strange they will not work properly with AGMs2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
30th Jan 2014 1:29 pm
Captain Slow
Member Since: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Herts
Posts: 459
Hi
I have been watching this thread with interest. I have twin Odyssey AGM batteries in my D3 and use a CteK 10. I know it has been cold and wet recently but the Ctek never completes beyond phase 4 on the main battery but seems to be ok on the auxillary....
For info, the alternator and battery have both been replaced recently.Prince Harry's D3: G4 factory equipped D3 - expo rack, winch, roof lights, ladder, active locking rear diff, RAI, Melville & Moon seat covers, General Grabber ATs/ Goodyear Duratrac
30th Jan 2014 2:55 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Please Note, the info I posted was D3 specific and I posted it here as an answer to the MY10 query and a D4 alternator operation ( up to MY13 ) is different to a D3.
On starting a D3 for the first time on a given day, the alternator literally freewheels for 30 seconds and then, according to info gained, while the cranking battery is being monitored during that initial 30 seconds, the Boost or Charger voltage level is set.
The voltage on a D3 will stay at that Boost level for 30 minutes and then drop back to the operating voltage level.
If you drive for more than 30 minutes and then stop. When you again start the motor and drive, the Boost voltage level will now run for 10 minutes and then drop back to the operating voltage level.
The D4 ( not including the 2.7Lt ) on first starting, does not have a predetermined freewheeling period and the boost and operating voltage levels are not constants like the D3 and are also effected by the load on the motor. This is commonly know as regenerative Braking charging.
Now this next bit of info I have not yet had a chance to observe and someone in the UK may have correct info, but I am lead to believe the new MY14 D4 has an eco mode set up which operates differently to the pre MY14 D4s but it is also equipped with a push button over ride, that allows the operator to over ride the eco mode for a specific single trip by pressing the button at the beginning of the trip.
These types of alternator operations are not restricted to LRs, while the LR system is a LOT “SMARTER†than many other makes.
For instance, Toyota introduce a variable voltage set up about 2009 and it’s a simple run for so long in boost, then drop to a pre-set operation operating voltage level.
There did not seem to be any variation beyond a set boost voltage level and a set operating voltage level and this proved to be a problem as it was common to see the operating voltage level as 13.2v, far too low a voltage level to maintain the battery properly.
Toyota have now raised their operating voltage level.
Ford have had a disastrous run with their variable voltage operation and have now changed it and so on.
VW seem to be the only manufacturer setting up their vehicles too best suit their customers needs.
They are using a version of Blue Motion and have to operator control set ups, one like the LR set up, with a push button over ride for a single trip and but VW also has a switch to permanently over ride the Blue Motion operation.
This is by far the “SMARTEST†set up.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
Thanks for the data on AGM's & the CTEK 5.0...
the same charger has resurrected a boat load of LA units...brilliant
but definitely struggles to look at the D3 AGM I have...
.....currently not an issue as I have a battery still with 2 years warranty on it.
If it gets to 3 years & I am still persevering with the D3 I will just buy a new AGM.
But at least others are warned about this combinationBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
30th Jan 2014 11:20 pm
vs2
Member Since: 11 Dec 2013
Location: NZ
Posts: 55
I brought a Demo that had been sitting around a dealership for 6 months and the battery was not in great shape (well under 12v when locked and taking readings through the 12s socket)
Per Tim's (Drivesafe) instructions I used my ctek to 1st recond the battery till float and keep connected for +/-8 hrs, then disconnect, wait a few hrs and do a normal charge until float and repeat this procedure a few times. With car locked and not used I checked the voltage every morning and after 5 days the battery is still at 12.85v. Thanks Tim.
What is strange is monitoring the voltage (2013 D4) with a OBD2 Gauge after charging to 100%. I drove for 30km with AC on max, all 4 seat heaters on max, headlights on and stereo blasting and the voltage stayed at 12.2 - 12.4 and every 3-4 minutes would quickly go up to +/-13.7 and straight back down to 12.2'ish again for the whole drive. When I got home I locked the car, waited 20 min and checked voltage through the 12s socket and it was 12.85v!!! I then unlocked the car turned everything I could on with ignition on (engine off) waited 20 min, turned everything off, started car and gauge went straight to 14.7v. Don't ask me how it all works??
My 2010 D4 currently has the standard LR battery YGD500130 and I got a message on the dash this morning saying 'Low Battery - Start Engine'. If I replace it with an AGM battery do I need to get the Battery Monitoring Module reset or not?Previously:
2005 D3 2.7 TDV6 S
1984 90 2.25 Petrol CSW
1992 90 200TDi Hard Top
1995 Discovery ES 300TDi
2003 90 TD5 Truck Cab
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