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Transporting a Canadian Canoe on the roof of a D4?!
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Ben4
 


Member Since: 28 Apr 2017
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 934

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4
Transporting a Canadian Canoe on the roof of a D4?!

I’m sure many have done it before,
What do people use?
I’ve used ratchet straps on a fibreglass canoe but I’ll be making one out of ply and timber and been advised to avoid ratchets.

Any experience of these?

I’ve got a D4 with prospeed rack fitted, along with ladder system and side awning


so think it would be a good idea to get some pads across the roof for the canoe to sit on.

Obviously can’t open the tail gate with the canoe on the roof.
Anything else I need to think about?

All advice welcome.
 formerly Disco3Ben

2016 D4, Santorini Black
2007 D3, Black - sold 
 
Post #21517995th Jun 2020 8:00 pm
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pagoda
 


Member Since: 13 Aug 2009
Location: Not London Anymore (or the US for that matter)
Posts: 1923

Canada 2016 LR4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Yulong WhiteLR4

Not sure if this helps. These are two x 16ft kayaks much like a Canadian canoe (for some reason the Yanks switch the terms). I mount them to the roof bars, and have an upright bar on the middle of each roof bar. I use ratchet straps to hold the kayaks to each roof bar, and stabilizing ropes from the front of the kayaks to the underside of the front, and ropes from the rear of each kayak to the tow bar. The sides of the kayak rest on dense foam on each roof bar. The kayaks are also held together by a further strap.

Here's a link to exactly what I have: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/94...1QGWg6PYDw

They max out the weight of the roof loading (maybe exceed it slightly) but I've used this method for a few years with no problems.



Click image to enlarge
 PAGODA  
Post #21518225th Jun 2020 9:37 pm
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ronp
 


Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15208

United Kingdom 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

I would question the hull strength of any canoe if it's not up to being ratchet strapped down (though not overtight).
Don't think I would fancy being in the middle of a loch/lake on 'bouncy water' in one.

I use the standard roof bars when transporting my canoe (MR14TT) and lashed down securely it's absolutely fine.

However, don't know the set up with a rack, best bet maybe is to contact Prospeed and see if they have any fitments you can add to it.
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Post #21518235th Jun 2020 9:38 pm
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Ben4
 


Member Since: 28 Apr 2017
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 934

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

pagoda wrote:
Not sure if this helps. These are two x 16ft kayaks much like a Canadian canoe (for some reason the Yanks switch the terms). I mount them to the roof bars, and have an upright bar on the middle of each roof bar. I use ratchet straps to hold the kayaks to each roof bar, and stabilizing ropes from the front of the kayaks to the underside of the front, and ropes from the rear of each kayak to the tow bar. The sides of the kayak rest on dense foam on each roof bar. The kayaks are also held together by a further strap.

Here's a link to exactly what I have: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/94...1QGWg6PYDw

They max out the weight of the roof loading (maybe exceed it slightly) but I've used this method for a few years with no problems.



Click image to enlarge


Thanks - interesting idea
Think a couple of lengths of dense thick foam might do the job Thumbs Up
 formerly Disco3Ben

2016 D4, Santorini Black
2007 D3, Black - sold 


Last edited by Ben4 on 5th Jun 2020 10:00 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #21518265th Jun 2020 9:56 pm
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Ben4
 


Member Since: 28 Apr 2017
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 934

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

ronp wrote:
I would question the hull strength of any canoe if it's not up to being ratchet strapped down (though not overtight).
Don't think I would fancy being in the middle of a loch/lake on 'bouncy water' in one.

I use the standard roof bars when transporting my canoe (MR14TT) and lashed down securely it's absolutely fine.

However, don't know the set up with a rack, best bet maybe is to contact Prospeed and see if they have any fitments you can add to it.

I think the ratchet thing is to avoid someone being an idiot and giving it the gorilla treatment when it’s not been positioned squarely on the roof.

I’m fine with using them,
Think I need to think about a padded crossbeam or dense foam for them to sit on 👍

Will also give PS a call next week although I’d rather not give them yet more money Smile
 formerly Disco3Ben

2016 D4, Santorini Black
2007 D3, Black - sold 
 
Post #21518275th Jun 2020 9:59 pm
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pagoda
 


Member Since: 13 Aug 2009
Location: Not London Anymore (or the US for that matter)
Posts: 1923

Canada 2016 LR4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Yulong WhiteLR4

Roof bar foam is a thing - at least in the US.

https://www.amazon.com/Dorsal-Crossbar-Sur...amp;sr=8-1
 PAGODA  
Post #21518295th Jun 2020 10:07 pm
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waterbuoy
 


Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2855

United Kingdom 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

In the past we have made up a couple of formers to fit inside an open canoe when transporting it. This allows rachet straps to be used provided you are sensible - placing on dense foam (eg heavy gauge pipe insulation) means that the first couple of tensioned clicks are (hopefully) compressing the foam and not the canoe. Thereafter fore and aft stabilising lines are key.
 Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE and 2013 MY D4 HSE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal) 
 
Post #21518325th Jun 2020 10:20 pm
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Ben4
 


Member Since: 28 Apr 2017
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 934

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

Really hadn’t considered front and back lines.

Where do you attach the front without rubbing paint off the bonnet?
 formerly Disco3Ben

2016 D4, Santorini Black
2007 D3, Black - sold 
 
Post #21518335th Jun 2020 10:28 pm
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ronp
 


Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15208

United Kingdom 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

Don't put an open canoe on its side on the roof, there's a high risk you'll crush it!
But if you don't, chances are you'll lose it as the straps won't be tight enough to hold it in situ.

Also, another drawback with it being on its side is to be prepared for the wind to take you where it wants to as it'll act like one big sail.

Always 'top it' when carrying an open top on a roof.
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Post #21518355th Jun 2020 10:33 pm
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waterbuoy
 


Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2855

United Kingdom 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Disco3Ben wrote:
Really hadn’t considered front and back lines.

Where do you attach the front without rubbing paint off the bonnet?


We used a soft climbing tape that was doubled back on itself through the towing eye and long enough to clear the front of the bonnet. The line (painter) could ten be tied down to this.

As Ron P said, best not to carry a Canadian canoe on its side, but I'd still consider a former under the ratchets
 Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE and 2013 MY D4 HSE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal) 
 
Post #21518365th Jun 2020 10:46 pm
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pagoda
 


Member Since: 13 Aug 2009
Location: Not London Anymore (or the US for that matter)
Posts: 1923

Canada 2016 LR4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Yulong WhiteLR4

ronp wrote:
Don't put an open canoe on its side on the roof, there's a high risk you'll crush it!
But if you don't, chances are you'll lose it as the straps won't be tight enough to hold it in situ.

Also, another drawback with it being on its side is to be prepared for the wind to take you where it wants to as it'll act like one big sail.

Always 'top it' when carrying an open top on a roof.


Respectfully disagree (and you’re quite wrong, RonP). First, if you’re careful and know what you’re doing, you will not crush the kayaks. Second, it doesn’t act as a sail at all. Maybe with a smaller car, but not with a LR3. I’ve done this for a few years without the slightest problem. The car will quite happily run with this set up. The set up is designed to do it - it's what it's there for. 800 mile round trip through crappy weather without a hitch.

If you have to carry two kayaks (and I do as there are 4 of us and a dog) this is perfectly fine.

If you haven’t tried it... .(just saying Whistle )
 PAGODA  
Post #21518416th Jun 2020 12:45 am
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snowmonkey
 


Member Since: 28 Jan 2012
Location: right of the middle
Posts: 195

United Kingdom 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Orkney GreyDiscovery 4

I’ve always used a couple of 40mm cam buckle straps on mine. It’s a Mad River made out of Royalex. Never had any problems strapping straight onto bars or the steel frame rack I made, which added a roller at the back for easier loading. But if you’ve just got one on top make sure it’s gunnels down Thumbs Up
  
Post #21518546th Jun 2020 7:12 am
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nigels888
 


Member Since: 28 Nov 2014
Location: stockton on tees
Posts: 293

England 2015 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Mariana BlackDiscovery 4

I have spent many years carrying canoes including Canadian canoes on my roof. I found the best was to put some pipe lagging on the cross bars wrapped in tape all round and then used ratchet straps to tie down. never once had a problem and the pipe lagging stopped any temptation for the canoe to slide on the bars and gave it that little extra flex when strapping. on the odd occasion I had used rope with a loop in one end to get it nice and tight.

I very rarely tied down front and rear as I did it once and ended up rubbing some of the paintwork. despite placing something between rope and paint
   
Post #21518596th Jun 2020 7:41 am
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ronp
 


Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15208

United Kingdom 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

pagoda wrote:
Respectfully disagree (and you’re quite wrong, RonP). First, if you’re careful and know what you’re doing, you will not crush the kayaks. Second, it doesn’t act as a sail at all.


And, I respectfully & strongly disagree with you Pagoda.
The OP is taking about an Open Canadian Canoe as I am, I'm not taking about Kayaks!
As I too carry multiple Kayaks on their side using an upright support, but will always have the outer ones with their cockpits facing inwards.
Carrying a kayak or canoe with the cockpit facing outward will be detrimental with side winds and always act like a sail ... it's physics!
Also as the op is even concerned about damaging the hull when tying down, it will certainly be more susceptible to damage when lashed down on its side.
This is a totally open top canoe home made of timber and doesn't have the structural strength of a moulded one piece plastic kayak (which has integral top bow & stern decks).

I'll repeat .... NEVER carry an Open Top Canadian Canoe on its side....... just saying. Whistle
(Heck, you wouldn't even store one on its side .... as you would do with a kayak)

Btw, what you have on your roof are Kayaks, not Canoes!
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Post #21518616th Jun 2020 7:48 am
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Trailered Movements
 


Member Since: 16 Jan 2020
Location: East/West Sussex Coast Borders
Posts: 1198

United Kingdom 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial Auto Sumatra BlackDiscovery 4

Just a bit of advice, and not only relevant to canoes/kayaks.
The nylon straps have a woven finish, not smooth. When under tension they will bite into whatever is being strapped meaning one side might be taught, and the other less so.
Using a sleeve over your goods that the strap goes through allows the strap to tension uniformly. A piece of carpet will do the same, you want the strap to move but the point of contact to remain staionary.

Dave
 2011 Discovery 4 Commercial SDV6 (Gone)
2010 RRS TDV8 (Gone)
1980 OBLIC 4.0ltr Range Rover (went a long time ago) 
 
Post #21518706th Jun 2020 8:28 am
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