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HPFP issues? - solved
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Kelman70
 


Member Since: 10 Aug 2018
Location: Peterhead Aberdeenshire
Posts: 146

Scotland 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3
HPFP issues? - solved

Hi Guys,

Looking for recommendations for tried and tested suppliers of new or refurbished HPFP for my 2.7 TDV6 2006 Disco 3

After a recent issue flagging up the P0087 - Fuel Rail System Pressure to Low - it looks like its time to change the pump

Checked the LPFP as per robbies guide and all seems fine, changed fuel filter and it solved the issue but two months later the code and limp mode is back. (clearly just masking the issue)

Pointing towards a faulty HPFP, although the fault is intermittent, can go 2 miles down the road and it will go into limp mode then next day can go all day without it dropping into limp. but when it does it always flags P0087.
 

Last edited by Kelman70 on 16th Oct 2021 5:25 am. Edited 2 times in total 
Post #224313723rd Jul 2021 11:18 pm
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PROFSR G
 


Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4579

Ukraine 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial XS Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Be careful, that's a low pressure side code! So satisfy yourself all is well with the lp side and ideally have the entire system tested thoroughly. The results should be backed up by diagnostics as well as physical tests before you fork out a very painful wad of cash for new fuel pumps!

You need to see a test/diagnostic result that condemns a particular side of the fuel system components before firing the parts cannon, otherwise it's a lottery, and believe me if you get this wrong you won't be the winner!

P0087 can also affect the high pressure side if there's a problem with the HPFP solenoids, you just have to do the work to confirm the integrity of both sides of the system!

Take your time, and work through it logically with results that confirm your suspicions/intuition.
The other thing I would say is to trust the test results and what the tools are telling you. If the numbers look OK accept it, and move on to the next component/stage until you find something that does not! Thumbs Up
 yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ

 
 
Post #224314424th Jul 2021 3:16 am
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

I've a new EU3 HPFP on the shelf Thumbs Up
 My D3 Build Thread

TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread 
 
Post #224314824th Jul 2021 5:41 am
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Torgeir
 


Member Since: 14 Apr 2021
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 29

Norway 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Barolo BlackDiscovery 3

I just replaced a HPFP needlessly so I second the comment on further diagnosis. I bought a refurbished on from a Norwegian supplier recommended by PF Jones in the UK.

In my case it was two injectors with excessive leak on the return. The balance values for the injectors read by IID Tool was fine and the car did not tun rough or though to start or any other symptoms. The way to find out is to run a leak of test on injectors.

Land Rover also mentioned something about it being possible to measure the resistance of the sensor sitting on the pump which usually go out.
  
Post #224316224th Jul 2021 9:11 am
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Kelman70
 


Member Since: 10 Aug 2018
Location: Peterhead Aberdeenshire
Posts: 146

Scotland 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Thanks for the info, can you explain why P0087 is a low pressure side code when it states “fuel rail” which if I’m not wrong would be the high pressure side

Low pressure pump was drawing 4.2amps and plenty flow when tested. The fact it’s pretty intermittent makes me think it’s a possible sensor issue in the Hpfp. I have a gap tool and have returned similar results as others with HPFP issues, high spike just prior to limp mode. I can easily carried out a leak off test on the injectors to try and rule that out.

Martin

PROFSR G wrote:
Be careful, that's a low pressure side code! So satisfy yourself all is well with the lp side and ideally have the entire system tested thoroughly. The results should be backed up by diagnostics as well as physical tests before you fork out a very painful wad of cash for new fuel pumps!

You need to see a test/diagnostic result that condemns a particular side of the fuel system components before firing the parts cannon, otherwise it's a lottery, and believe me if you get this wrong you won't be the winner!

P0087 can also affect the high pressure side if there's a problem with the HPFP solenoids, you just have to do the work to confirm the integrity of both sides of the system!

Take your time, and work through it logically with results that confirm your suspicions/intuition.
The other thing I would say is to trust the test results and what the tools are telling you. If the numbers look OK accept it, and move on to the next component/stage until you find something that does not! Thumbs Up
  
Post #224317724th Jul 2021 10:08 am
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Kelman70
 


Member Since: 10 Aug 2018
Location: Peterhead Aberdeenshire
Posts: 146

Scotland 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Disco_Mikey wrote:
I've a new EU3 HPFP on the shelf Thumbs Up


Mikey can you pm price please

However when I go against the advanced factors part numbers it’s a EU4 pump I need. My vin is 7………….
Is it actually an EU3 pump i need?
  
Post #224317824th Jul 2021 10:12 am
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Lloyd_evans
 


Member Since: 26 Apr 2018
Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 25

Wales 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

Morning
Did you manage to find a supplier for a hpfp (euro 4) in the end? Or is it the same pump as the euro 3?

Thanks
 Discovery 3 TDv6 HSE 2008  
Post #224349726th Jul 2021 6:49 am
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PROFSR G
 


Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4579

Ukraine 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial XS Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

No, EU4 is 07> and is different from the earlier EU3

As yours is an 08MY these are EU4 pumps:

https://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/lr017367...7711-p.asp

https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/fuel-injectio...33001.html

Never purchased one from here but presumably recon!
https://www.famousfour.co.uk/new_parts/ff_part?part=16897
 yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ

 
 
Post #224356426th Jul 2021 1:19 pm
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Kelman70
 


Member Since: 10 Aug 2018
Location: Peterhead Aberdeenshire
Posts: 146

Scotland 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

So if mine is a 2006 (56) it will be an EU3 pump?
  
Post #224357626th Jul 2021 3:03 pm
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

Check the last 8 digits of your VIN

They will be either be 6A****** or 7A******

6A is EU3, 7A is EU4 Thumbs Up
 My D3 Build Thread

TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread 
 
Post #224358926th Jul 2021 4:07 pm
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Kelman70
 


Member Since: 10 Aug 2018
Location: Peterhead Aberdeenshire
Posts: 146

Scotland 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3


It’s a 7A vin so will be an EU4, had to deal with the constant limp mode to get to a local mtb enduro race at the weekend and there doesn’t seem to be anything in particular that causes it. Seems to do it less when up at higher speeds 60-70 and will often drop into limp mode when you lift off the throttle and coast when coming into a village where your going from 60-30 etc.

I’ve used the gap tool and reviewed the rpm vs fuel pressure vs throttle position and just before the limp mode the fuel pressure seems to take a massive spike then drop back down.

Strangely there is also an audible rattle appeared when you lift off the throttle or under very slight acceleration. Can only really be heard with the window open. Could this be the pump? Or potentially turbo vanes although the turbo was changed not long before I bought the car.

Martin
  
Post #224370927th Jul 2021 10:19 am
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SomersetTaz
 


Member Since: 01 Oct 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 19

United Kingdom 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3
Same issue - Probably

Just to let you know I'm also struggling with the same issues and have pretty much the same IID graph. Mines a 09 2.7. Codes I get are P0087(2C), P0489-00 EGR (which has been blanked). Two new fuel filters in the past month, the last one a genuine one. Still get the dreaded bong, engine dies, same codes each time then suspension lowers (with codes U0416-86) and the F in the dash (codes U0123-87, U0100-87, U2023-86). Clears after restart and drives ok for a while under very light throttle.
Indy said all fuel system parameters were within spec - injectors etc (tested whilst stationary through). I've since tested the fuel pressure at the schrader valve (stationary) and get only 3psi/0.24 bar at idle, dropping to 2.5 psi/0.18 bar at 2000 revs and 1.8psi/0.12 at 3000 revs (all readings steady). Current draw of the LPFP is 3.5 amp constant. So I'm sure the fuel pressure is not good, but not sure whether its the LPFP or regulator solenoid or worse the HPFP. Off back to the Indy - Will keep you posted.
  
Post #224428530th Jul 2021 3:10 pm
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PROFSR G
 


Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4579

Ukraine 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial XS Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Quote:
SumersetTaz

I've since tested the fuel pressure at the schrader valve (stationary) and get only 3psi/0.24 bar at idle, dropping to 2.5 psi/0.18 bar at 2000 revs and 1.8psi/0.12 at 3000 revs (all readings steady). Current draw of the LPFP is 3.5 amp constant. So I'm sure the fuel pressure is not good, but not sure whether its the LPFP or regulator solenoid or worse the HPFP. Off back to the Indy - Will keep you posted.


Those LPFP values are too low, 3psi is less than half of where it should be not withstanding the current ambient temperature.
The 3.5 amps draw is also too low taking account of the same considerations. Have a look at the flow rate prior to changing the fuel filter, and again afterwards and see what that brings. Min flow is around 1.6 l/pm for a barely acceptable pump, a good flow value would be above 2.3l p/min and up to 3l p/min.
Current draw should be around double what you are seeing! Check the relay is ok too by swapping it out.

LR or Mahle fuel filter and see if helps, albeit perhaps temporarily if there is a deeper issue.
 yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ

 
 
Post #224430430th Jul 2021 6:28 pm
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Kelman70
 


Member Since: 10 Aug 2018
Location: Peterhead Aberdeenshire
Posts: 146

Scotland 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3
Re: Same issue - Probably

SomersetTaz wrote:
Just to let you know I'm also struggling with the same issues and have pretty much the same IID graph. Mines a 09 2.7. Codes I get are P0087(2C), P0489-00 EGR (which has been blanked). Two new fuel filters in the past month, the last one a genuine one. Still get the dreaded bong, engine dies, same codes each time then suspension lowers (with codes U0416-86) and the F in the dash (codes U0123-87, U0100-87, U2023-86). Clears after restart and drives ok for a while under very light throttle.
Indy said all fuel system parameters were within spec - injectors etc (tested whilst stationary through). I've since tested the fuel pressure at the schrader valve (stationary) and get only 3psi/0.24 bar at idle, dropping to 2.5 psi/0.18 bar at 2000 revs and 1.8psi/0.12 at 3000 revs (all readings steady). Current draw of the LPFP is 3.5 amp constant. So I'm sure the fuel pressure is not good, but not sure whether its the LPFP or regulator solenoid or worse the HPFP. Off back to the Indy - Will keep you posted.


Thanks for the info, and look forward to your response. initially a new fuel filter solved the issue for me, i did check the pressure and flow from the schrader valve but cant remember what the values were. I'm in the same boat as not sure if its the LPFP or HPFP, due to how intermittent the fault is i'm swaying toward the HPFP as id expect the LPFP to perform poorly right from the off and cause the limp mode almost immediately. some days i can go 50 odd miles with maybe 1-2 limp modes then following day wont get 2 miles down the road before it drops into limp mode, which would suggest a sensor issue as opposed to a worn out LPFP.

PFJones seems to be the cheapest place for a reconditioned HPFP

I'm currently offshore so been reading nearly every thread regarding LPFP & HPFP's haha

when i get home i will test the pressure and flow again at the schrader and recheck the current draw (was 4.2 amps last time) also want to do a spill back test on the injectors.
  
Post #224430830th Jul 2021 6:46 pm
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Kelman70
 


Member Since: 10 Aug 2018
Location: Peterhead Aberdeenshire
Posts: 146

Scotland 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

PROFSR G wrote:
Quote:
SumersetTaz

I've since tested the fuel pressure at the schrader valve (stationary) and get only 3psi/0.24 bar at idle, dropping to 2.5 psi/0.18 bar at 2000 revs and 1.8psi/0.12 at 3000 revs (all readings steady). Current draw of the LPFP is 3.5 amp constant. So I'm sure the fuel pressure is not good, but not sure whether its the LPFP or regulator solenoid or worse the HPFP. Off back to the Indy - Will keep you posted.


Those LPFP values are too low, 3psi is less than half of where it should be not withstanding the current ambient temperature.
The 3.5 amps draw is also too low taking account of the same considerations. Have a look at the flow rate prior to changing the fuel filter, and again afterwards and see what that brings. Min flow is around 1.6 l/pm for a barely acceptable pump, a good flow value would be above 2.3l p/min and up to 3l p/min.
Current draw should be around double what you are seeing! Check the relay is ok too by swapping it out.

LR or Mahle fuel filter and see if helps, albeit perhaps temporarily if there is a deeper issue.


Thanks for the info i will use this as guidance when i carry out further testing when i get home.
martin
 

Last edited by Kelman70 on 16th Oct 2021 5:22 am. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #224430930th Jul 2021 6:47 pm
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