Member Since: 21 Apr 2018
Location: Herts
Posts: 228
Help with a suspension fault
I know there are hundreds of threads on suspension sinking but everyone seems different (or no outcome posted!).
My D3 will sink overnight to the bumpstops. It sags first on the rear driver side so I assume the total sinking is the suspension levelling itself out.
Very recently I got the Amber suspension warning on the dash and code C1130 - Air spring air supply. Signal has too many transitions/events on Hawkeye.
Today i put it at offroad height and pulled fuse 26. After 6 hours or so, the rear right (driver) side had dropped 72mm, FR dropped 24mm, RL dropped 30mm and FL raised 16mm (presumably increased as the diagonally opposite side had dropped so much).
I went over it as much as I could with soapy spray before doing this and nothing obvious showed itself (including concentrating on that spot where the rear lines run with the EPB line). No bubbles from the air tank that I could spray although it is fairly corroded. The bags appeared ok, but stupid question - the rear ones particularly are all encased with the rubber covers top and bottom and unlike the D2, the bag is in a metal cylinder - how do you test them with soapy water?
Any thoughts on where to go next?
5th Apr 2021 5:49 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14188
Hiya
Personally would remove the air tank and pressure test it, or can do it in situ by pulling the 6mm pipe that goes to the tank and get a pressure gauge , pump it up with something like a foot pump or compressor , will need an isolating valve as well
Only need a few psi in it, at least then it gives u a couple of options , remove and test or in situ and test
If u remove it, u might need some irwin sockets or 6 x sided sockets as the bolts can and do break , just wished to give u a heads up
If its rusty might be an idea to order a new tank so at least it’s done , as at some stage will need replacing and having a new one ready ur not left without a motor waiting for a new tank
At least it’s a starting point seeing you’ve bubble tested everywhere and a leaking air tank is quite a common issue
Hope that’s helps a little
Last edited by gstuart on 5th Apr 2021 6:13 pm. Edited 2 times in total
5th Apr 2021 6:07 pm
reb78
Member Since: 21 Apr 2018
Location: Herts
Posts: 228
And, just repeating the height drop test overnight but the Rear Right has already dropped 5mm in about 25 mins. The other corners have stayed where they are.
5th Apr 2021 6:07 pm
reb78
Member Since: 21 Apr 2018
Location: Herts
Posts: 228
gstuart wrote:
Hiya
Personally would remove the air tank and pressure test it, or can do it in situ by pulling the 6mm pipe that goes to the tank and get a pressure gauge , pump it up with something like a foot pump or compressor , will need an isolating valve as well
Only need a few psi in it, at least then it gives u a couple of options , remove and test or in situ and test
If u remove it, u might need some irwin sockets or 6 x sided sockets as the bolts can and do break , just wished to give u a heads up
If its rusty might be an idea to order a new tank so at least it’s done , as at some stage will need replacing and having a new one ready ur not left without a motor waiting for a new tank
At least it’s a starting point seeing you’ve bubble tested everywhere and a leaking air tank is quite a common issue
Hope that’s helps a little
Thanks Gary.
That does help.
What makes you say tank over valve blocks or leaky bag out of interest? I am not questioning your advice, just curious what points you to the tank over the other bits that's all?
(hope you and all the dogs are well!)
5th Apr 2021 6:34 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14188
Hi
Pleased it helped
Reason I mentioned the tank is because of it being rusty and quite a common issue for them to fail along the top seam where u can’t see it , plus an easy item to test either by removal or in situ
Rear valve block is more difficult to access , As you’ve removed the F26 fuse the solenoids on the valve blocks should be closed
I must admit I also suspect there not sealing correctly because all corners have dropped , if they were working 100% and had a leaking strut only that corner would drop , not the entire disco
So now a leak is there , if u didn’t have a leak u wouldn’t really notice if the valve blocks were letting by a minute amount
Just didn’t wish u to start replacing parts without getting a 100% confirmation and tank is very easy to access and test
When I done mine it ended up having more leaks than a colander, lol, I ended up getting a hand vacuum pump and tested each and every item
I replaced my tank and all was well, or so I thought , tested each valve block and they let by, even after fitting new seals , vacuum tested them again and all let by
Alas u may test the tank and it’s fine , would then have to test each valve block to see why there letting by due to all corners dropping , ie , compressors dryer material has turned to dust and got under the seals
Hopefully that sort of makes sense in my thinking including ur pocket , as thought that if u removed the tank instead of testing in situ and it’s found the tank is leaking / condition u would be without a vehicle until u got a new one , plus a very easy place to start
Many thks, just have candy now, lost Milly a couple of years ago, candy is 14 x now and still made as ever
Ps, out of curiosity how old is ur compressor and when did u last check the dryer material plse, thks
Of course more than happy to help as much as I can
5th Apr 2021 8:07 pm
reb78
Member Since: 21 Apr 2018
Location: Herts
Posts: 228
Thanks for that. Just in case it makes any difference, the front passenger side doesn't seem to sink - it actually raised, but I think that's because the rear right lowered so much.
Am I right in thinking that the pump pressurises the reservoir and that the reservoir supplies the airbags via the valve blocks? So, if the valve solenoid for the front left isn't letting air past, that's why it can stay up, but the others are letting air past, back to the reservoir which is potentially leaking to atmosphere?
We bought this D3 back in July 2018, it has done this since then but sank over a day or two then rather than overnight. Its definitely sinking faster now, hence investigating.
As far as I know this could be the original compressor and the dessicant may never have been changed. I guess thats another job to add to the list! Its a 57 plate in case that matters.
Good to hear Candy is well. Her Jack Russell friend is still going strong!
5th Apr 2021 10:26 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14188
Hi mate
Indeed tank is controlled by that middle reservoir valves solenoid, found a tech sheet showing the system , can see the solenoid locations
Yes ref the front valve block , alas that dryer dessicant can cause havoc , was also amazed how much came out after plugging an external compressor on the the airlines , could see where it had coated the pipe inside
Agreed will be good to look at ur compressor , at least then u know it’s all done
If u do remove the air tank, order some new bolts as well , personally bought stainless steel ones , also had some Dinitrol left over so gave the tank a few coats along with the chassis area seeing the tank was out the way
That’s awesome candys playmate is still doing well , sssssshhhhh, don’t mention the shoes
Funny enough still looking for another dog , wish to get another small one, ie bichon, jack russell etc but with lock down the ones being sold privately shot up in price , well over a grand and rescue centres are a waste of time
Sorry gassing again, indeed Plse see how u get on
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
6th Apr 2021 10:00 am
reb78
Member Since: 21 Apr 2018
Location: Herts
Posts: 228
Thanks Gary!
So, overnight is is how we ended up with fuse 26 out and starting from off road height.
The obvious drop is the Rear Right.
RR - down 145mm
FR - down 38mm
RL - down 60mm
FL - up 15mm - this must be due to the rear right dropping.
Wheres the cheapest place for the air tank? Seems to be LR only.
6th Apr 2021 1:08 pm
aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2463
Island 4x4 £145 or advanced factors £161.12 both plus VAT.
You will get a club discount from Advanced FactorsAndrew
D3 2.7tdv6 2005
D4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial died and gone to LR heaven
D5 3.0 SDV6 HSE
6th Apr 2021 3:07 pm
reb78
Member Since: 21 Apr 2018
Location: Herts
Posts: 228
Thanks for that. Shame Island 4x4 are the cheapest - they wont get my money. Always being the cheapest seems to reflect a complete and utter lack of customer service! The minute you need communication or to return an item to them you just get rudeness and delays.
LRDirect seem to have it for £151.48 +VAT.
6th Apr 2021 5:51 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14188
Hiya
Wow , that certainally has dropped a lot, seems more evident when u actually see a pic of it
Found this ref the tank and my god they’ve gone up , think I paid around £90.00 for mine
At least having the ramp will make life easier being able to test it , plus hopefully the line and valves will just need cleaning out , but of course the dryer as well
Found using an airline worked the best on each line, disconnecting them all first , blasted them out, then put a cap on one end and pressure gauge , isolating valve on the other , along with a small shrieder valve , hopefully u won’t have to do all of that but just found checking each stage one by one allowed me to eliminate it in sections , then vacuum tested each valve block
Can’t find anywhere cheaper at the moment ref air tank
Hope that helps and indeed Plse let us know how things go
6th Apr 2021 6:08 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14188
As a side note, This was my set up when I done all mine , also easier using the larger oil extraction unit to pull a vacuum on each valve block
When I done my struts I simply pulled the lines out from the valve block , shrieder valve , isolating valve , pressure gauge , then put around 40 psi in them and waited , found front left was leaking so changed as a pair
Plus wonder how long the valve blocks have been letting by as indeed with the front and rear being isolated from one another when a leak appears it should indeed only effect front of rear not both
Also with the ramp will be so easy pulling the air tank line out the reservoir valve block , gauge and put some pressure in will quickly see if it’s leaking
Can then move onto the other lines / dryer and valve blocks
Think I need to get out more as I really enjoyed doing all of the suspensions fault finding
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Click image to enlarge
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Click image to enlarge
6th Apr 2021 6:13 pm
reb78
Member Since: 21 Apr 2018
Location: Herts
Posts: 228
Nice leaky bag there Gary!
So I have changed the air reservoir and the seals in the valve block by the compressor while it was accessible this afternoon. We will see in the morning what difference it has made! I cant find any obvious leaks on pressure checking the old reservoir...!
7th Apr 2021 7:20 pm
reb78
Member Since: 21 Apr 2018
Location: Herts
Posts: 228
We are still dropping.
In an hour, the
Rear right has dropped 11mm
Front right has dropped 3mm
Rear left has dropped 3mm
Front left has raised 2mm
What next do we think? Front valve block seals are now new too as are the middle valve block seals near the compressor. I have a set for the rear block so can do that but still losing air from the front so I am not sure it can be the valve block solely?
With these valve blocks, there seems to be a weak spot that new seals wont necessarily fix? There is rubber in the centre of the plunger pin - can this wear so it doesnt seal? I.e. see the scoring on the one below.
7th Apr 2021 7:38 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14188
Hi mate
Did u manage to test the tank first or just replace it please , was it badly rusted at the top seam
Don’t know if it’s the same but replaced all the valve block seals and mine was still dropping , I vacuum tested them to watch the vacuum gauge drop like a stone
Do u happen to have access to a hand vacuum pump or compressor , gauges , isolating valve plse
As when I got to that stage I systematically removed each pipe to the valve blocks , installed a pressure gauge , isolating valve and shrieder valve , then pumped each section up, watching the gauge
If I found a leak to an airbag , had both pipes out of the valve blocks and tested each side , if it held up I opened an isolating valve and watched it drop , proving that particular air bag or line was dropping
That’s how I did it and indeed was time consuming but proved either way what was leaking , without going down the road of throwing parts at it
Due to the amount of neglect mine was in I ended up replacing
Compressor / bracket / bolts
Pair of front air bags
Recutting ends of airlines where they had been cut or rough
3 x valve blocks
Air tank
All voss connectors with brass push fits
U can buy the small hand vacuum pump for around a tenner , if u need links I’m more than happy to share them with u ,so then u can test the valve blocks on there own, then front and rear separately
Must admit when I sorted everything out it was like a new motor , the ride was sublime , including a difference with cornering
Plse let me know what can assist u and more than happy to help as much as I can, including talking u through of the testing on each section
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