A member of the public, who wishes to remain anonymous, contacted the BBC when he realised the sensitive nature of the contents.
Ooooh, these are sensitive. Best I take them to a news organisation and ensure other people get to read it, rather than contacting the MOD and returning the documents.
Mind you, based on my current experience of dealing with the MOD they'd probably try and have the person who found the documents arrested, rather than admit one of their own is in any way fallable.I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
27th Jun 2021 10:16 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13629
Indeed, rather a stupid thing to do , Wonder if the person who found them also photocopied everything before handing them over
Maybe they were nervous contacting the MOD , but blimey if that was the case just hand them into there local police station , or call Scotland Yard
There’s been a few instances like this hasnt there, ie, laptop left on a train
Bet the person who left them at the bus stop is looking for a new job, alas though don’t know what the punishment would be if they were military personal
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German host to my boss: "Tell me. Vot is the name of zis fish in English?"
Me: "Don't tell him, pikeperch".
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27th Jun 2021 5:08 pm
J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
I always wonder if these "documents left at bus stops/on train/ in pub" occurrences are actually ways of releasing information that they want out in public but don't want to put out in public.
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27th Jun 2021 6:22 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13629
U saying that about releasing documents reminds me of the time the brits sent a dead body off the shores of france for the Germans to find in WW2 as part of operation overlord , tricking them into the wrong landing site
Hope I got that right
27th Jun 2021 6:46 pm
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 07 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4156
I’m afraid you were wrong….it was dropped off by a British sub just off the coast of Spain and the intention was to disguise the invasion of Sicily ….
It was called Operation Mincemeat….
27th Jun 2021 7:10 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13629
Ooops, don’t know what I was thinking then and why I thought it was to fool the Germans about the beach landings
Bless u for the correct history of it
27th Jun 2021 9:59 pm
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 07 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4156
You were right..it was done to fool the Germans…the British knew it was more believable if the body washed up on neutral territory…and they also knew that the Spanish would likely tell the Germans…(which they did)
But the Brits were trying to disguise the invasion of Sicily….
It’s a fascinating true story…. The body belonged to a down and out from London and he was dressed in military uniform and driven from London to Scotland where it was placed on the waiting sub…
None of the crew other than the captain knew what they were carrying!
Operation Mincemeat…. The levels of deceit were astounding! So you were right…but wrong country!
27th Jun 2021 10:15 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13096
Remembered in the 1956 film "The man who never was".
According to Wikipedia, the chap that devised the plan during the war had a cameo role in the film.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
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"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
27th Jun 2021 10:48 pm
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Re: Don't tell 'em your name, Pike!
NoDo$h wrote:
Classified Ministry of Defence documents found at bus stop
A member of the public, who wishes to remain anonymous, contacted the BBC when he realised the sensitive nature of the contents.
Ooooh, these are sensitive. Best I take them to a news organisation and ensure other people get to read it, rather than contacting the MOD and returning the documents.
Mind you, based on my current experience of dealing with the MOD they'd probably try and have the person who found the documents arrested, rather than admit one of their own is in any way fallable.
Only one reason why they'd go to a "news organisation" and I use that term as an approximation - ca$h.
Thse that know me know I got caught in the crossfire of a similar incident with another govt dept many years ago - ended up on the front page of the News of the World via an employee of the said govt dept looking for ca$h!
There are some scumbags out there!Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
27th Jun 2021 11:11 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13629
Farmer Chalk wrote:
You were right..it was done to fool the Germans…the British knew it was more believable if the body washed up on neutral territory…and they also knew that the Spanish would likely tell the Germans…(which they did)
But the Brits were trying to disguise the invasion of Sicily….
It’s a fascinating true story…. The body belonged to a down and out from London and he was dressed in military uniform and driven from London to Scotland where it was placed on the waiting sub…
None of the crew other than the captain knew what they were carrying!
Operation Mincemeat…. The levels of deceit were astounding! So you were right…but wrong country!
Bless u , ur right with the amount of deceit, including the planning of it all
also talking about clever ref alan Turing , remember seeing the film a while back , extremely impressed and wow talk about a clever bloke
Think there was also talk of the yanks catching a submarine that contained an enigma machine but as far as I’m aware it was the brits that got it
Then there was that building of German officers that were caught but the brits bugged it to see what they could find out
Plus don’t think turings name was known until around 1990 , brilliant man , heartbreaking of him committing suicide and how he was treated after the war
Think there was also talk of the yanks catching a submarine that contained an enigma machine but as far as I’m aware it was the brits that got it
I think that comes from a film with the usual Septic "re-imagining" of history.
IIRC, one of the things that helped crack enigma was the same bloke sending "Nothing to report" back to HQ every day.
Quote:
Then there was that building of German officers that were caught but the brits bugged it to see what they could find out
Some of the transcripts have been released. I found the account of German pilots discussing and laughing about the women, children and horses they had shot 'for fun' quite chilling: especially that they could hear the horses screaming.
My grandfather was a cryptographer with GHQ Liaison Regiment ("Phantoms") and was once ordered to destroy equipment to prevent it falling into enemy hands. The Army then fined him for damaging the butt of his rifle.
After the war we gave enigma machines to our allies as "uncrackable" code machines - and then decoded their diplomatic traffic.
An interesting taken on enigma:
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28th Jun 2021 5:24 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13096
The Yanks did capture an enigma but it was late in the war. The RN chap that captured stuff from the U Boat did it before the US was even at war with anyone.
As for cracking the code, the Polish had done a lot of work on it before the war - Enigma was a commercial device - and gave a lot of info to the British at the start of the war. Which was nice of them as we were at war because of a treaty we had with them.
One of the nastiest issues about Enigma is that people were allowed to be killed, e.g. a convoy attacked, etc., because there was a worry that the Germans would figure Enigma had been cracked if all of the Intel was acted upon. Imagine knowing that someone was about to be attacked and likely killed and sitting there doing nothing about it.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
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"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
28th Jun 2021 6:11 pm
Discologist
Member Since: 19 May 2014
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 537
[quote="HWN"]
Quote:
IIRC, one of the things that helped crack enigma was the same bloke sending "Nothing to report" back to HQ every day.
I think there were also daily weather reports and other repetitative transmissions which helped.
Then there was that building of German officers that were caught but the brits bugged it to see what they could find out
Some of the transcripts have been released. I found the account of German pilots discussing and laughing about the women, children and horses they had shot 'for fun' quite chilling: especially that they could hear the horses screaming.
Indeed. 150,000 pages of transcripts - barely the tip of the iceberg can be found in "Soldaten" by Sönke Neitzel and Harald Welzer. It makes for somewhat sobering reading.I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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