Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
On the 3 tdv6 engines i had opened up, all the torque settings were fine...
The main bearings on all of them show abnormal signs of wear as said earlyer..
Have a look yourself...
Left 68K mls..... right 120K mls...
Click image to enlarge
Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
14th Mar 2021 11:58 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Well it appears that the bearing stamped numbers do not suffice. So unless any one has the genuine size/color chart it looks like I will be going with aftermarket bearings.
So far I have heard:
King - stories of success and failure
FAI - stories of success
Feel free to chip in with your experiences!
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
20th Mar 2021 10:43 pm
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 758
Motolab wrote:
On the 3 tdv6 engines i had opened up, all the torque settings were fine...
The main bearings on all of them show abnormal signs of wear as said earlyer..
Interesting
What about the main bearing housing, have they been torqued and checked for size / ovality ? Was the wear to the bearings the same on all of the mains ? Both to the block and the cap ?
What about the big ends ?
21st Mar 2021 12:09 am
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 758
This is what i have for the colour coded bearings, note it is for the 3L engine...
For me the interesting bit is the size chart, assuming it relates to what is desired for your crank.
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
21st Mar 2021 12:17 am
Yargo
Member Since: 25 Dec 2020
Location: Europe
Posts: 326
Breg90 wrote:
Well it appears that the bearing stamped numbers do not suffice. So unless any one has the genuine size/color chart it looks like I will be going with aftermarket bearings.
So far I have heard:
King - stories of success and failure
FAI - stories of success
Feel free to chip in with your experiences!
Adrian
One of the LR specialists and engine rebuilders on FB group said "I have seen too many bearing failures, never KING again, use FAI".
Genuine LR bearings are circa 500 quid, ouch.
21st Mar 2021 5:25 am
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Yargo,
It seems you can buy main and big end bearings for Ford F150 3.0 Powerstroke diesels. This a 3.0 version of the LION engine that we have. Whether its the same version as the 3.0 in the D4 I am not too sure. I have found on the interweb (of lies) that the USA version has a larger big end journal diameter (increase of 3mm) - sadly can't remember where I read it as it wasn't of that much interest at the time. I assume (if it is true) that this is strengthens the weak area that fatigues and fails. There is talk about the crank bearing forged rather then cast as well which would help. Makes me wonder if you could fit an newer design (uprated?) crank with new con rods to a D4 3.0. Cranks are list in Ford dealer web sites for OOM $545. Seems to good to be true!
Mean while you can also order the main and big end bearings from Ford in the USA. they even list the colours of each bearing as an option - red/yellow/blue. Question is what do I need???? If I knew that a full set of Ford bearings (main and big end) would be $325. I'd pay that.
You can also buy Ford main bearing cap bolts and side bolts + big end cap bolts.
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
28th Mar 2021 10:41 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
jenseneverest wrote:
This is what i have for the colour coded bearings, note it is for the 3L engine...
For me the interesting bit is the size chart, assuming it relates to what is desired for your crank.
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Jenson,
Appreciate you posting that. I actually have found that document - it's by Outback Engineering, i.e. its not an official land Rover or Ford document. Looking at the table it lists the following nominal sizes:
Bore - 72mm (nominal)
Journal - 69mm (nominal)
But looking up sizes on the KING bearing web site it lists the following for a D3 2.7 V6 Lion engine:
Big End:
Bore - 69mm (nominal)
Journal - 63mm (nominal)
None match the sizes in the Outback Engineering document which makes me suspicious. Plus the bearing code data does not match for the 2.7 V6. But I believe the bottom end is the same on a 2.7 & 3.0 V6.
I am now loitering/asking questions on Ford F150 forums about the 3.0 version of the LION engine they have had since 2018.
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
28th Mar 2021 11:00 pm
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1114
Yes the Powerstroke does have larger journals - about 2mm larger in diameter - this information implies the block is slightly different to the Lion 3.0 in that the crank tunnel will be bored to a slightly larger size - as I said by implication rather than confirmed information. Maybe a Lion 3.0 block has enough meat in it to enable line boring to fit the Powerstroke crank and bearings - who knows until someone tries it.
28th Mar 2021 11:01 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Garrycol,
Main bearings or Big end bearings?
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
28th Mar 2021 11:06 pm
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1114
Not sure - I assume both as the specs for the Powerstroke just refer to larger journals.
I guess it is like when the Rover V8 went from the 3.9 to the 4.0 - same capacity engines but the crank on the 4.0 had larger journals and would not fit a standard 3.9 block.
29th Mar 2021 12:14 am
Yargo
Member Since: 25 Dec 2020
Location: Europe
Posts: 326
Breg90 wrote:
Yargo,
It seems you can buy main and big end bearings for Ford F150 3.0 Powerstroke diesels. This a 3.0 version of the LION engine that we have. Whether its the same version as the 3.0 in the D4 I am not too sure. I have found on the interweb (of lies) that the USA version has a larger big end journal diameter (increase of 3mm) - sadly can't remember where I read it as it wasn't of that much interest at the time. I assume (if it is true) that this is strengthens the weak area that fatigues and fails. There is talk about the crank bearing forged rather then cast as well which would help. Makes me wonder if you could fit an newer design (uprated?) crank with new con rods to a D4 3.0. Cranks are list in Ford dealer web sites for OOM $545. Seems to good to be true!
Mean while you can also order the main and big end bearings from Ford in the USA. they even list the colours of each bearing as an option - red/yellow/blue. Question is what do I need???? If I knew that a full set of Ford bearings (main and big end) would be $325. I'd pay that.
You can also buy Ford main bearing cap bolts and side bolts + big end cap bolts.
Adrian
No point buying Ford bearings for such money if you can get genuine LR bearings for 500 GBP.
29th Mar 2021 4:49 am
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 758
TBH if it was my crank i would have it ground to 10 thou (.25mm for those with metric brains) and get bearings to suit. That way all the clearances are perfect again. If the heads were coming off then i would standardise the rods too.
29th Mar 2021 2:51 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Yargo wrote:
Breg90 wrote:
Yargo,
It seems you can buy main and big end bearings for Ford F150 3.0 Powerstroke diesels. This a 3.0 version of the LION engine that we have. Whether its the same version as the 3.0 in the D4 I am not too sure. I have found on the interweb (of lies) that the USA version has a larger big end journal diameter (increase of 3mm) - sadly can't remember where I read it as it wasn't of that much interest at the time. I assume (if it is true) that this is strengthens the weak area that fatigues and fails. There is talk about the crank bearing forged rather then cast as well which would help. Makes me wonder if you could fit an newer design (uprated?) crank with new con rods to a D4 3.0. Cranks are list in Ford dealer web sites for OOM $545. Seems to good to be true!
Mean while you can also order the main and big end bearings from Ford in the USA. they even list the colours of each bearing as an option - red/yellow/blue. Question is what do I need???? If I knew that a full set of Ford bearings (main and big end) would be $325. I'd pay that.
You can also buy Ford main bearing cap bolts and side bolts + big end cap bolts.
Adrian
No point buying Ford bearings for such money if you can get genuine LR bearings for 500 GBP.
Yargo,
Interested in where you have a price for 'LR' bearings? Not managed that my self yet. But as the engine is made/designed by Ford then LR bearings are Ford bearings.
However $325 for Ford bearings makes £236 - some what cheaper than £500. To be fair no delivery and import taxes on that.
However you have made the same point twice - Am I missing something from your view point?
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
30th Mar 2021 9:34 pm
Yargo
Member Since: 25 Dec 2020
Location: Europe
Posts: 326
Breg90,
"Whether its the same version as the 3.0 in the D4 I am not too sure" - this is a problem. I would not risk buying if its not 100% guaranteed fit.
There is a guy in UK who sells genuine LR engine parts, including bearings.
30th Mar 2021 10:02 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
@ Yargo,
“There is a guy in the UK who sells”
You could not be more vague TBH...Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
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