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World Philosophy Day - Q4
Last but by no means least:
Quote:
4. DID YOU REALLY CHOOSE TO READ THIS ARTICLE?
Suppose that Fred existed shortly after the Big Bang. He had unlimited intelligence and memory, and knew all the scientific laws governing the universe and all the properties of every particle that then existed. Thus equipped, billions of years ago, he could have worked out that, eventually, planet Earth would come to exist, that you would too, and that right now you would be reading this article.
After all, even back then he could have worked out all the facts about the location and state of every particle that now exists.
And once those facts are fixed, so is the fact that you are now reading this article. No one's denying you chose to read this. But your choice had causes (certain events in your brain, for example), which in turn had causes, and so on right back to the Big Bang. So your reading this was predictable by Fred long before you existed. Once you came along, it was already far too late for you to do anything about it.
Now, of course, Fred didn't really exist, so he didn't really predict your every move. But the point is: he could have. You might object that modern physics tells us that there is a certain amount of fundamental randomness in the universe, and that this would have upset Fred's predictions. But is this reassuring? Notice that, in ordinary life, it is precisely when people act unpredictably that we sometimes question whether they have acted freely and responsibly. So freewill begins to look incompatible both with causal determination and with randomness. None of us, then, ever do anything freely and responsibly."
Someone pass the Prozac
Quotes from David Bain lecturer in philosophy at the University of Glasgow - BBC.co.uk21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Last edited by DG on 20th Nov 2008 9:15 pm. Edited 1 time in total
20th Nov 2008 9:00 pm
NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
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Am I drunk or did these questions start in the same thread?
20th Nov 2008 9:02 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
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Not too bad if you just read every 20th word!!
20th Nov 2008 9:03 pm
DG Site Moderator
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You are drunk
No I mistakenly posted Q4 under Q3 but have now changed it 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
20th Nov 2008 9:03 pm
NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
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Posts: 2466
Deep.
How about Schroedinger's Cat?
Wikipedia wrote:
Schrödinger and Einstein had exchanged letters about Einstein's EPR article, in the course of which Einstein had pointed out that the quantum superposition of an unstable keg of gunpowder will, after a while, contain both exploded and unexploded components.
To further illustrate the putative incompleteness of quantum mechanics Schrödinger applied quantum mechanics to a living entity that may or may not be conscious. In Schrödinger’s original thought experiment he describes how one could, in principle, transform a superposition inside an atom to a large-scale superposition of a live and dead cat by coupling cat and atom with the help of a ‘‘diabolical mechanism.’’ He proposed a scenario with a cat in a sealed box, where the cat's life or death was dependent on the state of a subatomic particle. According to Schrödinger, the Copenhagen interpretation implies that the cat remains both alive and dead until the box is opened.
Schrödinger did not wish to promote the idea of dead-and-alive cats as a serious possibility; quite the reverse: the thought experiment serves to illustrate the bizarreness of quantum mechanics and the mathematics necessary to describe quantum states. Intended as a critique of just the Copenhagen interpretation—the prevailing orthodoxy in 1935—the Schrödinger cat thought experiment remains a topical touchstone for all interpretations of quantum mechanics; how each interpretation deals with Schrödinger's cat is often used as a way of illustrating and comparing each interpretation's particular features, strengths and weaknesses.
20th Nov 2008 9:16 pm
stevejhunt
Member Since: 26 Sep 2008
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For 's sake. Now I need a drink..............I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member...........
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20th Nov 2008 9:20 pm
NJF
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However, the supposition of the life-state of said cat depends entirely upon whether or not the cat is actually there in the box.
What really 'bakes the noodle' is to question whether or not the cat exists at all once the box is closed........ The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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20th Nov 2008 9:38 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
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(And NJF - if you mention Schroedinger's effing Cat one more time I'm coming round to let down your new tyres.... )The next American ex-pat that calls it a "truck" is going to find out what 2.7 tons feels like on their foot...
Club "yes, I too have had the EGR's replaced..."
Club "yes, I too have had the compressor replaced..."
Club "yes, I too once had the car at the dealer for a couple of weeksnearly 4 weeksover 4 weeks...5 weeks"
Club "yes, I too have had EPB failure..."
Club "yes, I too get mysterious bings and bongs..."
20th Nov 2008 9:45 pm
DG Site Moderator
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Re: World Philosophy Day - Q4
DG wrote:
Quotes from David Bain lecturer in philosophy at the University of Glasgow - BBC.co.uk
So I have ...as detailed at the bottom of Q4
21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Schroedinger's effing Cat kept my mind off the small print... The next American ex-pat that calls it a "truck" is going to find out what 2.7 tons feels like on their foot...
Club "yes, I too have had the EGR's replaced..."
Club "yes, I too have had the compressor replaced..."
Club "yes, I too once had the car at the dealer for a couple of weeksnearly 4 weeksover 4 weeks...5 weeks"
Club "yes, I too have had EPB failure..."
Club "yes, I too get mysterious bings and bongs..."
No I didn't chose to read the article - I chose to ignore it as I did on the BBC site.
As these paid for writing this drivel?Too much intellectual firepower can damage your common sense.
20th Nov 2008 9:57 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
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You chose to post here though ...and IF you read the article then you would know why 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
20th Nov 2008 10:01 pm
Walmsleys
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Schroedinger's Cat is of course entirely theoretical (or is it?) What is more important is whether Schroedinger himself was ever alive or whether he was a figment of his cat's imagination. Equally has anyone fully explored whether, whilst his cat was away, in the box, Schroedinger's mice did play?2013 D4 HSE Luxe in Indus Silver
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